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Gaza and Hamas
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Gaza and Hamas Reply with quote

Respected Members:

Any thoughts on the situation in Gaza and the tumult with Hamas? I will be speaking with a Palestinian journalist (here in the USA) at some point in time this week, but am incredibly behind the curve in understanding the situation in Gaza.

All thoughts appreciated.

R/Tammy Swofford
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second try: I know this is a sensitive subject. I do not mind running the gauntlet of thought but some of you may prefer your thoughts not be in a public forum.

I need education. Please feel free to write into my e mail account:

tammyswofford@yahoo.com

*If Sir Iqbal were here, he would respond. smile

Tammy Swofford
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Nadir



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Namibia, Karachi

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Sir Iqbal, hmm Reply with quote

Salaam Tammy

He would say,

Teri hareef hey YaRAB, siysate afrang,
Competeion to establish system of Deen ALLAH is politics of Afrang (Westerner, whiteman) etc.

Magar hain is kay pujaree faqat, Ameero Raees
But worshipers of this politics are only people running behind worldly gains money, cars, fame, etc

Banayaa ek hi iblees aag sey tu nay
You O'Lord made only one IBLEES with Fire

banay khaak sey is nay doe sad hazar iblees
But this politics have made two hundred thousands Iblees with dust

Or maybe,

Is raaz ko ek marde farangi nay keeyaa faash
The secret has been revealed by a honorable westerner whiteman, etc

Her chand kay dana isay kholaa naheen kartay
Even though honorable people shyaway from doing so

Jamhooriat ek tarzay hukoomat hey kay jis main
Democracy is a way of governing in which

bandon ko ginaa kartay hain tolaa naheen kartay
people are counted and not weighed


Last year when Hamas won election comrehensively, following headline passed my sight," Israel issued weaponary and ammunition of 40 million US$ to Fatha movement of Abu Mazin or X, Yasir Arafat" and i did submitted to ourbeacon.com asking what is this, but there was no response.

Hamas collectively has shown qualities of Rehmaniyat and raheemiyat, by bringing Abu Mazin on borad. Right now if nothing is done soon to calm situation in that reigion, we are going to have Armagedon in our hands.

But to the perpertrators of this situation i want to ask, How long do you think, that your houses, homes are going to be saved, very soon direction of wind will change and you will find yourself in fire which you lighted for others to burn in, It has been long enough, before you are greeted with Eye for an Eye.

Firstly muslim brothers must consider message of Holy Quran, By not being divided in sects for mere worldly gains. United we stand divided we fall.

I am shy to say anything on the forum for being uneducated, uterly Ummi, please excuse poor language useage.

Congrats to commitee for such a swift change to new forum. I am under the impression that new promised features are also going to be incorporated soon.

“My Lord! Expand my chest with confidence, courage and steadfastness.
Give me the strength that the formidable challenge becomes easy for me.
Make me eloquent of speech.
That my word reaches the depths of their hearts. (20:25-28)

S.N.Hussian
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Reader,

Must I remind you that Rasool Muhammad was also Ummi or unlettered and as such the Qur'an says, Recite.... not "Read" when Jabriel addressed him. Being Ummi did not preclude Muhammad from the League of the Virtuous, where he cut his teeth as a stateman, prior to his fortieth birthday.

I am not quite sure what to think of your statement which had depth of thought in that people are counted and not weighed in Democracy. I will have to think about that for a bit. But I do understand that each person is weighed in the Eternal balance, are they not?

Thoughts precede action, and as such the future course of Gaza will be determined by men who think and then react accordingly. But it does appear that the future holds much peril.

Thank you for your kindness and also fearlessness to respond. And remember that while there are those born to nobility because of their blood lines such as those who retain the title "Mir" there are those who also attain to noble status such as "Sayyid" because of their personal honor. smile

Tammy
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Tammy,

Ummi does not mean illerate. See 3:75:

3:75 Among the People of the Scripture, there is he whom you can trust with a heap of gold, and He will readily return it to you. And among them is he who, if you trust him with a single gold coin, He will not repay you unless you keep after them. This is because they say and believe, “We owe no way (of honesty) to the Gentiles/Ummiyyeen.” Thus they speak lies about God, and they very well know it.

Ummi refers to people who have not received a Revelation before and are not part of the Jewish people.

62:2 He it is Who has sent a Messenger among those who had never before received a Scripture – to convey unto them His Messages, to make them grow in humanity, to instruct them in the Scripture and wisdom, Judgment and
establishment of God’s Rule on earth - whereas before that they were obviously lost in error.


[‘Ummi’ = Gentile = Non-Israelite = Unlettered = A nation (the Arabs) that had never received a Scripture before. ‘Zaku’ or ‘Tazkiah’ = Growth = Purity from
vice = Development of ‘self’ = Self-actualization. ‘Hikmah’ = wisdom = Judgment = Governance = Political Rule.]

As Mohammed was for 30 years a succesful businessman, being brought up in the elite family of the region, and married to a succesful businesswoman. It is unacceptable to think he couldn't read or write.

How could he have known the scribes were writing down the Quran in the correct way?

These misunderstandings were created later on through folklore, when people wanted to make Mohammed more special and special, and the Quran more of a miracle.

This was picked up by the 3th century clergy.
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dearest Respected Arnold,

I do know that Prophet Muhammad was sent out into the desert with a wet nurse, as was the habit of the city folk, so that he would learn the classic Arabic dialect and have less exposure to disease during the formative years when children catch every little sniffle.

Now I am not disputing your Arabic translation of the verse you mentioned. But I am basing my thoughts on readings of Islamic scholars, including a German revert (his name fails me) who wrote a book on the Science of al-Quran, and he addressed the issue of being "Ummi" or as he called it "unlettered".

With one-third of men and 51 percent of women on the Arabian peninsula still "ummi" or unlettered today it is distinctly possible that Prophet Muhammad was unlettered. In my mind there is the historical preponderance of evidence that he was unlettered because of the many Sahaabah who put to memory the recitation of al-Quran, who then lost their lives during the Wars of Apostasy.

It is interesting that I have conversed with PhD Islamic scholars who are perfectly comfortable with noting that Prophet Muhammad could not read. They are comfortable, because they believe he retained a mantle of Divine Authority. Many times he referred to himself as a Messenger, or as a "Warner". One who warned with a prophetic call in the Taurah, for the most part gave warning via an oral tradition.

As an aside, there is no mention in the Injeel of Jesus being a lettered man, except for the instance when he knelt once, and wrote in the sand. But scripture teaches, that he was given authority to teach, that astounded the Pharisees and the scribes of that day. His authority, which was first shown when he went to the Temple in Jerusalem and discoured with the scholars as a young boy and they were amazed at his knowledge. Musas, having grown up in the court of Pharaoh, was lettered, but due to his discomfort, Aaron, functioned as his mouthpiece when negotiating for the release of the Israelites from their servitude in Egypt. He later found his public voice, but his most eloquent thunderings of thought were directed back to the One who sits upon the circle of the earth. smile

Thank you for the translation, Arnold.

R/Tammy
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tammyswofford wrote:
But I am basing my thoughts on readings of Islamic scholars, including a German revert (his name fails me) who wrote a book on the Science of al-Quran, and he addressed the issue of being "Ummi" or as he called it "unlettered".


And the Quran explains itself. So who cares what scholars say. Just like the Orientalist M.Watt said, the only real authority on what we know of Mohammed is what the Quran says about him.

So the Quran should be the decider, and it is very clear in its usage of Ummi.

tammyswofford wrote:

With one-third of men and 51 percent of women on the Arabian peninsula still "ummi" or unlettered


Please give me one person who grows up in an Arabian elite family who cannot read or write.....Remember he was part of the elite? And does the current 51% represent the elite families? smile

tammyswofford wrote:
the Wars of Apostasy.


Please keep in mind, the only thing we know about the first generations is what the Quran tells us. And they do not fight war because of apostasy. Thus, these wars were nonsense.

They fought wars to defend the State and its people.

tammyswofford wrote:

It is interesting that I have conversed with PhD Islamic scholars who are perfectly comfortable with noting that Prophet Muhammad could not read.


Because they rather listen to dubious history reports then the Quran. They also accept Mohammed marrying a child, so what else do you expect?


tammyswofford wrote:
They are comfortable, because they believe he retained a mantle of Divine Authority. Many times he referred to himself as a Messenger, or as a "Warner". One who warned with a prophetic call in the Taurah, for the most part gave warning via an oral tradition.


ALL Prophets were given a KITAB=WRITING/BOOK. Thus ALL Prophets had written down their Revelations. ALL of them. Paper existed already 5000 years ago...
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Respected Arnold.

You certainly took a mulching machine to my post. smile

I still await a brave soul to post on the Gaza situation with a political slant and their own thoughts. The Hamas charter does have a couple of deficiencies in my mind. And if the document is deficient, so will be the policy also.

R/Tammy
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother Arnold AA.
You make good points. But, 29:48 For, (O Prophet) you were never able to read a book or scripture before this (quran), nor could you write anything with your own hand. Or, else they who try to disprove the truth might have some cause to doubt it.

Looking to get further enlightened more. Good job and please keep it up.

Badar Kanwar
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bkanwar2 wrote:
Brother Arnold AA.
You make good points. But, 29:48 For, (O Prophet) you were never able to read a book or scripture before this (quran), nor could you write anything with your own hand. Or, else they who try to disprove the truth might have some cause to doubt it.

Looking to get further enlightened more. Good job and please keep it up.

Badar Kanwar


Salaam Badar,

This verse refers to that Muhammed did not write any sort of writing, that comes close to the Quran, before its Revelation.

The word Biyameenik is used, which means "With your own strength/ability".

The whole verse does not refer to the act of writing and reading itself, but that Muhammed had not studied other Holy Scriptures before the Quran, nor had he ever tried to write or claim something similair as the Quran. He does not have or had the ability to come up with something similair of such magnifince in message and style.

It refutes the accussations that Muhammed concocted the Quran. Allah refutes this by saying, did he ever write or recite anything like this before? Is he familiar with the previous Scriptures of the Jews and Christians? No.

See for example how the Quran also says:

25:5 And they say, “Fables of ancient times which he has written down as they are dictated to him morning and evening.”

Here it clearly says Muhammed wrote down the Quran himself! Some would say, "Yes, but the enemies of the Prophet say that he could write, how can we trust that?"

Ok, to accuse the Prophet of concocting the Quran is something many enemies would agree too, and this would also convince some of the persons who are doubting. But let's say for example Muhammed could not write, and then people accuse him of concocting the Quran plus writing it down himself!

Would not that destroy the enemy's credibility? Wouldn't their argument be more like: "He can not even read or write! and he is claiming to have a Book from Allah!"

Wouldn't that be a far more superior point to make if you were the enemy of the Prophet? But never can you find such an allegation in the Quran. Only the ones were he is accussed of copying the Scriptures of the Christians and Jews, being mad or a liar or being a simple fortune teller.

Now, would you dare to claim that Muhammed learned to read and write overnight, at the same moment the Quran was revealed?

To understand these issues, you must always look at the similair statements made in the Quran to understand the whole message.

For example, in the above given verse, the Prophet was accussed of being dictated by Jews and Christians. Verse 29:48 refutes this.

The blessed Prophet Muhammed was a human just like us, the mercy for the worlds. His only miracle was the Quran. He learned things through experience and observations, and writing takes years to learn.

25:7 Yet they say, “What sort of Messenger is this who eats food and goes about in the market-places? Why is not an angel sent down to him to act as a Warner together with him?”
25:8 “Or why has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he not a garden for enjoyment?” The wicked say, “You are but following a man bewitched!”
25:9 See what sort of examples they apply to you! They have strayed far too much to find a way.
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Brother, Arnold AA,

Thanks for elaborate answer. Points, you made to Tammy were very logical. But looking the meaning of word Ummi in Lane, he also made a referral to this Aya, that I cited as probably the only sound argument in favour of trasnlating the meaning of Ummi as unlettered and/or unable to read and write. But, thanks for clearification from Al-Furqan itself. May, Allah bless you and us all.

Wasalam,

Badar Kanwar.

P.S. I have yet to buy Auralog software for Arabic learning per your advise.
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dearest Arnold,
Please break down "Beyameenik" into the arabic root for me.

What it the three letter root? I am unsure.

R/Tammy
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dearest Readers,
I see by the number of views that this topic is one of interest. But there is no solid discourse on the topic.

Last week I spoke with a former president of the Palestinian American Congress. Although gaining a scaffolding of thought for which I am grateful, I still desire pieces of the puzzle to be put into place as far as what this situation means, symbolically, if nothing else to some of you. Better yet, factual discussion.

Please remember that I have a Western mind which attempts to understand each of you. I may trip over my own thoughts at times and as such, in advance, ask forgiveness.

Tammy Swofford
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tammyswofford wrote:
Dearest Arnold,
Please break down "Beyameenik" into the arabic root for me.

What it the three letter root? I am unsure.

R/Tammy


It is not a single word Tammy. The important part of the word is Ya, coming from Yad. Yameenik means "Your Yad".

Bi is a preposition and refers to "with" .

Yad means hand/ability/power/strenght. Yameenik means "With your right hand", but this does not really refer to the right hand itself, but to the most strong or dominant ability in a person.

Thus Bi-Yameenik can be translated as "With your all of your Ability/Strength/Power".

In the context of the verse the best translation is:

29:48 ....nor could you write anything (close to the Quran even) with all of your most strong abilities.....


Last edited by Arnold Yasin Mol on Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tammyswofford wrote:
Dearest Readers,
I see by the number of views that this topic is one of interest. But there is no solid discourse on the topic.

Last week I spoke with a former president of the Palestinian American Congress. Although gaining a scaffolding of thought for which I am grateful, I still desire pieces of the puzzle to be put into place as far as what this situation means, symbolically, if nothing else to some of you. Better yet, factual discussion.

Please remember that I have a Western mind which attempts to understand each of you. I may trip over my own thoughts at times and as such, in advance, ask forgiveness.

Tammy Swofford


Tammy,

To me the situation is simple. There is no unity in Islam and the rulers are divided instead of using consultation.

There is no symbolism involved, only a clear situation where the Palestian people are left by themselves by the Muslim world, their rulers divided instead of being united and using consultation.

They are people Tammy, humans. To me it does not matter who struggles, oppression is oppression. And the Palestians are oppressed as are many people in many nations.

It is not a Muslim affair, but a human one. I do not understand why or what you want to hear from us non-Palestians.

The only thing I could say is, the inner conflict could be solved if they would follow the Quranic injunctions, and the Muslim world be one Ummah.

It is just a sign how the religious approach of Islam fails its people.

The second problem lies with the Israelian policy, which is condemned by 99% of ALL nations in the world.
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