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Holy Hate

 
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shahalam66



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:42 am    Post subject: Holy Hate Reply with quote

Someone said: our enemies are not those who hate us, but rather those whom we hate. The question is whom to hate or what to hate? There are some divine or holy hates that we must hate. We must hate vice, opression, injustice, cant, sins, lies, hypocricy, etc. etc. But hating those whom we hate is intellectual hate. That makes people most ferocious in their capacity to hate. Majority of human wars clock intellectual hate.
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

al-amr bi'l-maruf wa 'n-nahy 'an-al-munkar. As such, war is at times necessary for the maintenance of a desirable social order. War is engaged to secure channels of water, to maintain sea lanes of commerce. It is engaged to lay claim to potable water for drinking and suitable soil for crops. Securing the perimeter of one's land which has valuable resources springing from the womb of the earth is also part and parcel of war. On a smaller scale, in Texas, our legislators are strengthening our "Castle Doctrine" which gives the right of a homeowner to shoot and kill an intruder who threatens a man's home, property or family. The law in place is already fairly strong, they are merely closing a loophole or two of liability which may be used by the assailant against his intended victim.

My personal belief is that hate is an emotional component of man that has its place and scope, for limited use and format. One of the Old Testament stories is of a Commander named Sisera, who was known for brutally killing pregnant women by the sword, ripping their unborn from their bodies. Obviously, he did not believe in the law of armed conflict. He was greatly feared because he had in his armory 900 iron chariots. He was killed by a woman, Jael, who hammered a tent peg through his skull as he slept, exhausted from the battle. My guess, is there was quite a bit of hate involved to give her the will to accomplish her task. A necessary hatred at that point, to go against her nature? (Judges 4:17-21) As to whether "holy" and "hate" belong in the same context, I am unsure what Islam teaches.

R/ Tammy Swofford
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noman waseem



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 64
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear LCDR Tammy,

Quote:
As such, war is at times necessary for the maintenance of a desirable social order.


I can't imagine how war can ever serve such a purpose. If anything, I think this statement would serve as an oxymoron as this sounds more like oppression.

Quote:
War is engaged to secure channels of water, to maintain sea lanes of commerce. It is engaged to lay claim to potable water for drinking and suitable soil for crops.


Certainly, many States may have engaged in war for such reasons, but this doesn't some how make it right. To lay claim to Allah's Bounty for one's exclusive benefit is not to be condoned (please correct me if I misunderstood). Certainly the Islamic State would not have as a whole acted in contradiction to the Qura'nic teachings:

2:190 [All mankind should agree upon and mark their calendars for four months of peacetime. However, true following of the Divine System of Life will meet with harsh opposition.] So, fight in the Cause of Allah those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression. Behold, Allah loves not aggressors. (2:194, 2:217, 4:91, 9:5, 9:36, 22:39, 60:8.)

2:193 Hence, fight them only until there is no more harassment, and Deen may be adopted for the sake of Allah alone. And if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against those who replace peace with aggression.

2:216 (Establishing the Prescribed Way of Life will meet stiff opposition from those who wish to maintain the status quo for their vested interests. Therefore), Fighting is ordained for you, even though it is hateful to you. But it may happen that (with your limited intellect that is frequently swayed by desire) you hate a thing that is good for you - and it may happen that (out of sentiments and emotions) you love a thing that is bad for you. Allah knows and you don't.


Concidentally, you may find this verse to be interesting since it states that Muslims hate the act of fighting and consider it a duty to fight. Fighting, thus is not a means of expressing one's hatred of something but rather a binding duty to Allah.

4:75 What has happened to you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah? Defenseless men, women, and children are being oppressed and crying, "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors, and raise for us protectors and helpers." (It is not the Law of Allah that He comes and fights in person, or sends His armies or angels physically 22:39).

4:76 Believers fight in the Cause of Allah, that is, for the removal of tyranny and in self-defense (benign aggression). And the rejecters of the Truth fight in tyranny and for their selfish desire to oppress people (malignant aggression). So fight against those friends of Satan. Verily, Satan's plan is feeble because the selfish desire fails before the Divine Law of Requital.


Quote:
My personal belief is that hate is an emotional component of man that has its place and scope, for limited use and format.


I would like to suggest that you consider the following verse:

4:135 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Stand out firmly for justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it is against yourselves, your parents and your relatives, and whether the case is of a rich person or a poor person. Allah is nearer to them than you are; His Law comes first. Follow not your emotions lest you fall short of justice. If you distort your testimony or turn away from this Command, Allah is Aware of all your actions.

On the whole, I agree with shahalam66 that "We must hate vice, opression, injustice, cant, sins, lies, hypocricy, etc. etc.", but I believe these are purely metaphorical and only serve as guiding principles.

Thank you for your time
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Norman,
I have just enough time to read your response and you challenge my thoughts, as iron sharpens iron. But for now, this LCDR is a mother who needs to pick up a child from school and cook dinner!

I will enjoy bringing my thoughts back to the forum, later tonight.

R/ LCDR Tammy Swofford, USNR, NC
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tammyswofford



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Norman,
Regarding war and social order, just look back to our own civil war and the change in social order which was gradually introduced. While economists and historians will tell you that the real reason for our civil war was all about finances, the secondary benefit was the Emancipation Proclamation which freed the slaves, and gave them citizenship rights, and later, voting rights and civil rights expansions.

War is a tricky endeavor and not for the faint of heart. At times, the conflict between two parties, effects those on the periphery, as seen in the Iran-Iraq conflict. Toward the end of that time (1987) the United States became involved in what was referred to as the "Tanker Wars". The bare bones, Kuwait was allowing Iraq to use their airspace. Hence, Iran in seeking to punish Kuwait, began to attack the Kuwaiti tanker fleet. Kuwait sought U.S. assistance, we reflagged their ships, escorted them through the Strait of Hormuz and protected their backsides on their journey. All sorts of other considerations were also on the table with the Soviet Union still a dominant force, etc. So war ripples to other regions beyond the principal parties.

War is not about oppression, in the truest sense of the word. To me, oppression can be a generational societal problem brought on by successive corrupt leaders, in a semi-stable governmental body. But war is about the maximum force brought to bear in the shortest length of time, to resolve the conflict and move back to equilibrium. It has happened thousands of times throughout history and will continue to be one of the tools used by governments when other options may be lacking. Do I believe that righteous men can engage war? Yes. Do I also believe that evil men can engage war? Yes. As such, war should be way down the list as far as options. But make no mistake, once war is declared there is only one intent. It is to be the victor. Both sides, seek victory and not defeat.

Correct me if I am wrong, but was not 2:190 later adjudicated for an allowance for war during the Sacred Months if specific requirements were met? It is late, and the reference evades me. Maybe it is the next reference you give. smile

You mention fighting as a duty. That is much the same concept of the American soldier. Our duty is bound to our oath and to our chain of command. I have yet to personally know a soldier who sought orders to Iraq or Afghanistan because they harbored hate. Beyond that, the orders start at the Pentagon level and work their way down, not vice versa. But I have attended the funeral of a soldier on orders who lost his life in Baghdad and have a personal friend who lost her son in Afghanistan. So we all know that war exacts a toll.

I do retain a belief that there is a compendium of human emotion, much as a compendium of rational thought. The balance being that the rational man, is to rule over the emotional man, without obliteration of personality. People who become totally devoid of emotion, are scarey.

I hope you are not getting a visual picture at this point of me rolling along a piece of Western dung with my nose, much as the ju'al manages to do along the sands of the Arabian Peninsula. Just a military gal, Norman. Accept me as such. And thank you for your Qur'anic response. smile

Tammy
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