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Were there any prophets who came without Scripture?

 
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Naushad



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Were there any prophets who came without Scripture? Reply with quote

Salaam alay kum,

Based on Allama GA Perwez (using verses 2:213 and 57:25 referenced below from QXP), no prophet or messenger ever came without a Scripture/Book. If this is the case then what were the books that came down with prophets like Hazrat Noah, Hazrat Eesa Ibne Maryam and others? So is it that Allah did not explicitly list the name of each prophet's scripture in Quran but it is implied that they all came with a book based on verses 2:213 and 57:25? Your help in clarifying this will be appreciated very much.

-------- QXP Reference for verses 2:213 and 57:25 ---------
2:213 Mankind were once one single community. (But Satan, their selfish desire, divided them. 2:36, 10:19.) So, Allah sent Prophets as heralds of good news and as Warners, and with them sent the Revelation as the Absolute Truth in order to decide among the people in their disputes. But again, out of mutual rivalry, they divided among themselves although all evidence of the Right had come to them! Hence, Allah shows the Lighted Road, according to His Laws, to all those who would acknowledge the Truth, to resolve their disputes. Allah guides to the Straight Path of real success him who wills to be guided.

57:25 Indeed, We sent Our Messengers with the evident Truth and revealed
with them the Law and the Balance of right and wrong that mankind may deal in justice. And We have bestowed the iron in which there is awesome power and many benefits for people, and that Allah may mark out him who helps Him and His Messengers although the victory is initially unseen. Verily, Allah is Strong, Almighty.
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abshoeb



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam

Brother The Qur’an is the Watcher over the old Scriptures and guards the Truth in them.

Please ponder these verses you will have answer....

14:4 We never sent a Messenger who did not speak the language of his people, so that he might make the Message clear to them. People go astray or attain guidance according to Allah’s Laws (4:8Cool. He is Almighty, Wise.

22:52 Yet whenever We sent any Messenger or Prophet before you, satanic people tried to confound the central aims of the Message in his very life-time. But Allah rendered null and void all the aspirations they had. And Allah makes His Messages clear in and by themselves, for Allah is All Knowing, Wise. (Satanic people then tried to alter his teachings after he passed on. Allah, then, sent another Messenger to restore the purity of His Messages 6:113. Until the Final Message was revealed and Allah Himself guaranteed its preservation.)

22:53 (Allah allows) these satanic people to advance their aspirations so that He might make this conspiracy a test for people and distinguish (the true believers in the Divine Revelation) from those who have a disease in their hearts. Verily, those who relegate the Divine Revelation in favor of human aspirations create great schism and sectarianism. (Zulm = Relegation from the rightful place). (2:53).

22:54 Those who are blessed with true knowledge, will recognize your Lord’s Truth, accept it, and then settle it in their hearts and humbly submit to Him. Surely, Allah alone is the Guide of those who truly believe, to the Straight Path. (5:48, 15:19).


5:48 To you (O Messenger) We have sent the Book in Sure Truth confirming the Divine Origin of whatever Scripture was before it. The Qur’an is the Watcher over the old Scriptures and guards the Truth in them. So, Judge between people by that which Allah has revealed to you and follow not their wishes away from the Truth that has come to you. Now has come to all of you the Divine Law, and a traced-out Way. If Allah had willed, He could have made all of you humans a single community. But, He decided to let you choose your own path after showing you the Truth, and thus test yourselves. Outdo one another in actions that serve humanity and thus grow your “Self”. To Allah is your final destination; of all of you. Then He will make you understand where you differ.

Ali Bin Ali Alharbi (Al Madina)
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Naushad



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother Ali,

Thank you for your response and I do understand that Quran is the watcher over all previous Scriptures. I am sorry but I am still confused that is it correct that ALL prophets and messengers came with an individual scripture? If this is the case then what were the names of scriptures for prophets like Noah and even Eesa Ibne Maryam? Thank you.
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Dr. Shabbir
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Naushad Saheb AA

A Nabi & Rasool by definition receives and conveys the Messages of Allah. These Messages are his book. So all prophets/messengers/apostles came with a book.

NABI, when he receives the Message - RASOOL when he conveys it.

The Criminals of Islam have tried to deceive the Ummah by saying that some prophets/rasools came with a book while others did not. Thus, some of them have tried to open for themselves the doors to prophethood, like Mirza Qadiani, Dr. Rashad Khalifa, Gohar Shahi and many of the Sufis claiming to have come without a book..

Hazrat Iesa's Book is the well-known INJEEL or Gospel.

Ancient prophets' book names are not given in the Qur'an except the generic SUHUF (Scriptures) e.g. SUHUF-e-IBRAHIM. You may think of SUHUF-e-Nooh.
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam aleikum,

Jesus's Scripture was called the Gospel, which means 'The Good News':

5:46 And after them We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming the Divine Origin of what was revealed before him. We gave him the Gospel in which there was guidance and a light, and it confirmed the Divine Origin of what was revealed before it in the Torah, a guidance and admonition to those who wished to live upright.

It is not a title, just a description, just like Torah means 'Teachings' and Quran means 'Reading' or 'Recital'. It is not a title of the books itself, only a description on its context and how we should approach it. You want 'titles' of the Revelations. But NO Revelation has a title, repeat NONE. All Revelations were called by its description, they didn't had any names.

The word "zabur" is borrowed by Arabic from Sabaic, a South Arabian dialect. This word, as a common noun, means "a written document on soft material". As a proper name, it denotes a kind of South Arabian script called Zabour script, which is a variant of the Musnad script. But while the Musnad script is a monumental script that is used mostly for engraving on solid surfaces such as rock, the Zabour script was used for writing on soft materials.

The description of "zabour" is very interesting because in ancient Arabia there were different scripts used for monumental inscriptions on rock than for writing on soft material such as parchment. Monumental inscriptions were used for commemorative writings that people don't read on day to day basis. On the other hand, the soft writing materials were used for everyday affairs such as business contracts, letters, and literature. In Chapter 96, we are told to read what Allah taught by the "pen". We are also told that had the sea been "ink" and the trees "pens", then they would have been exhausted before Allah's words. All this is indicating that similar to the "zabour", the Quran/Reading was also written on soft material that people use in every day affairs and is highly accessible for reading. It was not written as a monumental inscription for mere religious display.

The word Injil is generally considered to be borrowed by Arabic from the Greek word Ευαγγελιον, and it literally means "good news". In the Quran/Reading, we are told for example that Jesus gave the good news of the future messenger Ahmed (61:6).

The word "torah" is borrowed by Arabic from Hebrew. While it is wrongly translated into "law", in reality the common noun "torah" in Hebrew literally means "teachings" or "learning". As you can see, no Revelation was given a title, it was called by its description. All Scriptures contained 'Good News' and 'Teachings' and were all a 'Recital'.


Noah was a Prophet:

4:163 We have sent you the Revelation as We sent it to Noah and the Prophets after him. We sent Revelations to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his progeny (the Tribes), Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon; and to David We gave the Psalms.

And he had Revelations:

10:71 (People have been fabricating falsehood since ancient times.) Relate to them the history of Noah. Behold! He said, "O My People! If my presence among you and my announcement of Allah’s Messages are hard on you, well, I have put my trust in Allah. Decide then upon what you are going to do against me, and call to your aid your “partners”. And once you have chosen your course of action, let no hesitation deflect you from it. Then have a go at me and give me no respite.

Noah's Revelations guided him to freedom, just as all Revelations did:

11:37 We commanded Noah, “But build an ark under Our Eyes and according to Our Directions, and do not plead with Me on behalf of the oppressors. (23:27). Behold, they are destined to be drowned.” (A flood in the valley of Tigris and Euphrates was forthcoming. (11:44). The rejecters would drown for not following the Prophet).

Noah's Revelations were upheld for 950 years:

29:14 And, indeed, We sent Noah to his nation, and his Message survived among his followers a thousand years less fifty. The flood overwhelmed the rejecters, for they used to violate human rights.

Why exactly 950 years? Well, after 950 years, a new Prophet came:

The
Surah derives its name from the sand dunes that were a part of the landscape inhabited by the second generation of the powerful tribe of Aad in the Southeastern Arabian Peninsula. To the mightier first generation Aad was sent Prophet Hud, perhaps next in line only to Noah who was the first ever Apostle of Allah. Contrary to popular belief Adam is the allegorical use of ADAMI or the human being. The Qur'an does not refer to him as a Prophet.
Dispelling the Biblical and Muslim traditional influence, 4:163 confirms that
Noah was the first ever Prophet of Allah as do 6:85, 10:74, 57:26-27.
Historically, the times of Noah and Aad have only been a matter of estimates, perhaps, 5000-6000 B.C. Aad were, however, the descendants of Iram son of Sam son of Noah.

11:89 "O My people! Let not my disagreement with you be taken personally to cause you to persist in your guilt so that the same (retribution) befall you that befell the people of Noah, and the people of Hud, and the people of Saleh. And remember that the people of Lot did not live very far from you.”
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Saleena



Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post, Arnold. What you have said about Revelation not having a title, and (in another post in answer to Angela's question) "Muslim" is absolutely on the money. The same holds true for "Islam" - a word treated as a true noun but which in fact, linguistically speaking, is a verbal noun, meaning "submitting" or "complying" to God's Law. This makes it an act rather than a denomination for a fixed religious or political institute.
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Saleena, thank you and yes, this is also the difference. If you treat it as a title, you will probably act the exact opposite of what that name stands for. If you understand it to be a description, then you know that you atleast have to aplly the description before you can call yourself a Muslim. If you don't play tennis, you cannot call your self a tennisplayer. Sadly most people who call themselves Muslim, don't make their behaviour to coincide with the the name.

This was an answer of mine to a person who asked me these questions:


1) What is Islam?

Answer: Islam is not a title of a group. It is a description of an act, of a behaviour. It refers to peaceful submission to Allah's laws. It is a surrender to Allah's laws as the best ones for us humankind, and the peaceful refers to that we accept these laws without any resistance but also with total eagerness. So in short again: Islam is a description of a behaviour. It is not a title of a group. The behaviour is accepting Allah's laws of Nature and Revelation in a peaceful and submitting way so we can attain the best position. It is submitting to Reality and Truth instead of running from it.

Sadly the description is stolen by people who use it as a title. Because they approach it as a title instead of an act of behaviour, they have become the exact opposite of where the term stands for. This is where you have grown up in. Because of this you have a distorted view of the concept. You need to delete the old version and learn the real one.

The literal Arabic meaning of Islam=Peacefull Submission


2) What is meant by a muslim?

Answer:

A person who is doing the act of Islam. The term Muslim is also not a title of a group, but again a description of an individual who is doing the act of Islam. It is a person who submits to Allah's laws of Nature and Revelation in peace and eagerness as he knows these are the best Laws to follow and understand to create the best position in the Creation. This term also explains the arabic use of the word 'Salaat' in the Quran which means 'To follow closely to gain the best position', where a Muslim becomes muslim by following the Divine Laws of Nature and Revelation closely to gain the best position in the Creation as 2 horses in a race where the second horse gains on the first horse.
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Saleena



Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject: Institutionalisation Reply with quote

Arnold Yasin Mol wrote:
If you don't play tennis, you cannot call your self a tennisplayer.


I tend to look at it as: You can't call yourself a physicist if you are practising as a biologist. Some of the terms used in both fields might appear to be the same, but their applications are often quite different.

Arnold Yasin Mol wrote:
The term Muslim is also not a title of a group, but again a description of an individual who is doing the act of Islam. ... This term also explains the arabic use of the word 'Salaat' in the Quran ...


Agreed. It also explains why Abraham and other disseminators of the Message are referred to as Muslimeen in the Quran.

I am so glad you have mentioned the institutionalisation of these concepts. I had encountered it originally in Muhammad Asad's Message of the Quran, and honestly to date had not seen it elsewhere, even though I found myself in strong agreement with it, having come to a similar conclusion around the time I was writing my first book.
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