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Shirk (Associating partners with God)

 
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mubashir



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Shirk (Associating partners with God) Reply with quote

Allah tells us in His Message that Shirk is unforgivable.

Since shirk cannot harm Allah or His Majesty, it means that it must be harmful to us humans. There are many forms of shirk but when we Muslims follow our own desires over Allah's guidance, we seem to be commiting a shirk as well. Does that mean we are to suffer forever with no hope of redemption even in the hereafter. If such a rule is applied, then hardly any Muslim would be left untouched as we are weak and we behave in a way that could amount to shirk.

Can we explore this? Why is Shirk considered an unpardonable sin? How does it affect us? What are it's negative implications on us, our personalities, our attitudes and our souls?

Kindly comment.

Thanks in advance.

Mubashir
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Mubashir
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UmeAimon



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 141
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam brother,

Why is shirk unforgivable? Strange you can see the condition of most of people in the world and not realise. It's because that is what it leads humanity to, permanant suffering and hell in this life and life to come is just reflection of what we did here. It's for ourselves, Allah SWt is above all what ever whoever thinks and does. AllahuSamad, "Baynayaaz".


UmeAimon
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Ridwaan



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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Location: CAPE TOWN SOUTH AFRICA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salamun Alaykum

How can we define Shirk?

Shukran for your help.
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mubashir



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Shirk (Associating partners with God) Reply with quote

Dear Sr UmeAimon


Yes we do observe world engaged in all kinds of Shirk including the Muslim world.

However, with respect to honesty, courtesy, compassion, helpfulness, charity, human rights, cleanliness, empath, sympath, social welfare, litteracy, technology, science, reason, we find the West is doing much better than the Muslims.

What are we missing here? What is the disconnect?

Regards

Mubashir
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Mubashir
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mubashir



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Shirk (Associating partners with God) Reply with quote

Thanks Br Nur.

Makes a lot of sense.

Mubashir
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Mubashir
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UmeAimon



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam,

Dear Mubashir it's what brother Abdun said, shirk is basically acceptance of falsehood, even in the name of religion and in any society and region. We need to address that and perhaps the only way is to educate people about it.

thanks

UmeAimon
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Dr. Shabbir
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MISSING LINK:

13:17 ... The real existence on earth is of the person or the system that benefits humanity.
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: Shirk (Associating partners with God) Reply with quote

mubashir wrote:
Allah tells us in His Message that Shirk is unforgivable.

Since shirk cannot harm Allah or His Majesty, it means that it must be harmful to us humans. There are many forms of shirk but when we Muslims follow our own desires over Allah's guidance, we seem to be commiting a shirk as well. Does that mean we are to suffer forever with no hope of redemption even in the hereafter. If such a rule is applied, then hardly any Muslim would be left untouched as we are weak and we behave in a way that could amount to shirk.

Can we explore this? Why is Shirk considered an unpardonable sin? How does it affect us? What are it's negative implications on us, our personalities, our attitudes and our souls?

Kindly comment.

Thanks in advance.

Mubashir


Salaam Aleikum,

First we must see what the verse says:

ان الله لا يغفر ان يشرك به ويغفر ما دون ذلك لمن يشاء ومن يشرك بالله فقد ضل ضلالا بعيدا

4:116 Verily Allah la yaghfiru that partners should be ascribed unto Him. wayaghfiru save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray.

Page 405-406 under the root Ghafara. Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an by Abdul Mannar Omar, 2006 4th edition.

It says: “To give protect, to cover over, shield, suppress the defect, set the affairs right. Ghafar al-Mata’a means He put the goods in the bag and covered and protected them. Mighafar is a shield and helmet. Ghafr means covering with that which protects a thing from dirt. Ghafour, name of God: The Protector.”
See similar conclusions:
Page 15-16, Exposition of the Qur’an, Mafhum Al-Qur’an by G.A. Parwez. 1990.
Page 57-59 Volume 6, Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane, based on Taj-Ul-Roos, 2003 2nd reprint.

Thus the verse is better translated as:

4:116 Verily Allah does not protect against the consequences of taking up partners (goals) should be ascribed unto Him. And He protects all save that to whom His Will (expressed in the laws of the universe) protects. Whoso ascribes partners unto Allah has wandered far astray.

Thus I understand verse 4:116 not as God will not forgive anything but shirk, but as Allah will not protect you against the harmful consequences of Shirk. Shirk here has multiple meanings. Allah can only protect you if you accept Wahi i.e. the Qur’an, or atleast the universal moral that is found in every person (30:30) and follow the laws of the universe so we can protect ourselves of going against the universal laws.

And the shirk also refers to be other then the attributes of Allah, thus being out of sync with the universal blueprint that govern the universe. As Allah’s attributes each represent one pillar that keep the web of the universe working and sustaining. For example, Allah is Samad, meaning self-sustaining. The universe also has this attribute as it is a self-sustaining universe, and we as a species must also be self-sustaining, every person must be self-sustaining, not dependent on others. If we go out of sync with these attributes, we in a sense create our own attributes, and thus become partner with Allah’s attributes, and being out of sync with the universe is disastrous, and this is why Allah cannot be Ghafour in this case, as Allah cannot cross the limits of our Free Will. We must decide ourselves to be in line with the Tawhid, unity of the universe.

This is why Allah cannot protect us against the consequences of Shirk, as Allah would then take away the free will that is given to us, as free will must also carry full responsibility of every act, as expressed in 21:47 and 99:7-8.

The whole Universe is based on evolution, not the law of the fittest, but the law on what will make your own species develop further (13:17).

A mushrikeen , meaning those that uphold partners next to God, are people that hold their beliefs on traditions more important than to contribute peacefully to mankind as a whole and give a distorted view on reality. They make their forefathers, priests and rulers authorities that run their daily affairs. Their main goal is not global peace and prosperity, but to maintain their tradition, religious goals and personal sustainment. They make their own background and life the main goal of existence. The universal law of evolution judges people on their deeds (11:117), as long as a people contributes to society, their beliefs and traditions are no obstacles, but in the long run, in many cases, these will become obstacles as we have seen throughout history. An example, most Western Christians uphold capitalism as their economic system, a completely man-made economic system, the Gospel does not provide a guide on economics, so they have to turn to other sources. Capitalism in its present form is an unfair system that does not help mankind as it abuses the majority for the good of a minority. As long as they can pursue their religion and self-sustainment, they are not motivated to change anything for the better of the whole of mankind. This also counts for the Muslim world, Hindu's, and so on. This is how their beliefs creates obstacles in the development of mankind as a whole.

As long as mankind, doesn’t matter if the person is Buddhist, Sectarian Muslim (almost all Muslim sects mix the Qur'anic message with man-made sources and thus distort the Qur'anic goals in most cases), Christian, Hindu, Agnostic or Atheist, base their way of life focused on pursuing their own salvation and nourishment, they have become mushrikeen, as most of these beliefs and systems are discriminating to other beliefs or races, limited in its scope and vision and it goals mostly create short term benefits for a specific group, while the rest is left out. Thus they are not beneficial to mankind and its development as no current system provides the answers and solutions to Man’s problems in a way which will provide mankind as a whole. This is why the Qur'an says Shirk is the only thing God cannot give you any protection over, Ghafara (4:116). As accepting authorities next to the Qur'an means you will follow ideas and beliefs which will not make you successful as a species and society, and as we have free will (18:29), we must decide ourselves if we accept God's protection, as we stay in harmony with the universe and have the power and knowledge to sustain our species, which we can attain by following His guidelines in the Qur'an. Thus God cannot protect us against the harmful consequences of Shirk since this falls under our own free will.

Taken from:
http://deenrc.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/quranic-cosmology-a-short-introduction-by-ay-mol-aug2008.pdf
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Sidqi



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

13:17 ... The real existence on earth is of the person or the system that benefits humanity.

Albert Einstein… There is no existence without purpose in life.

How he got this one. Just a coincidence or reflection of a divine order in a genius.

Sidqi.
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mubashir



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Shirk (Associating partners with God) Reply with quote

Very well explained Br. Arnold. May Allah bless you and increase you in knowledge.

Mubashir
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Sidqi



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother Nur,

You are a real muslim hero.
Every one is wrong but me me me me.

what is NASA, i can make one. I can go to mars, taking off from peshawar. I can make 747 in Dacca.
we dont need time space speed laws. we can make our own.

Every one is corrupt except muslim angels.
stop propagating about your website from this forum.

Sidqi.
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Sidqi



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Nur,

You are calling Ein Stein and others like Hawkins, Enrico Fermi are all liar, worthless plagiaist, deceiver, corrupted knowledge with intention and malice.
Universities like Princeton are corrupt, bribery givers etc.
What kind of lines are these.
Where do you stand in front of them.

Thats why i wrote previous lines. I strongly smell a mental disorder here.

sidqi.
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SE
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You couldn't really take a picture of a black hole. Light doesn't escape it and they are only a few tens of kilometers in size.

As for the sun. The surface is NOT involved in the reaction, only the core, which why why the core is much hotter than the surface. You also have to understand 4 billion kg/s is not much compared to the total mass of the Sun. It would take a total (from start to finish) of 14 Trillion years for it to run out of fuel. The sun doesn't exactly "burn" it fuses Hydrogen Nuclei into Helium.

I would like to point out that E = mc^2 does take time into account. Just take a look at the units:

kg(m^2/s^2) = Nm = J

Here is a simple High School level explanation even without the theory of relativity:

A shortcut to E=mc^2

Also the Big Bang was not one large burst it had many stages, not everything was created at once. The concept of the Big Bang has nothing to do with one large burst that created everything almost instantaneously.
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SE
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can still observes the effects of black holes. We can use radio waves to observe them and in fact we do have radio telescopes which we have used to observed the black hole at the center of our galaxy. Also dark matter is just matter that does not emit light at the visible light frequency. It does nor interact with the electromagnetic force, but we can observe the gravitational effects of dark matter. We can't see everything in the universe with our eyes, that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to observe it.

seconds are a unit of time, and used to derive Joules, the unit of energy. c (the speed of light) takes time into account, all velocities do.

Why would it be unreasonable for the surface to not be involved in the reaction? The sun has layers, it is not homogeneous.

Layers of the Sun

If you want to understand the theory of gravity. Imagine Space-time as a sheet that is stretched out, and imagine placing various size and weight balls on that sheet. These balls cause distortions in the sheet.

Gravity in terms of Space-time

There wasn't many little bangs the big bang had mutliple-stages. The conequences of thebig bang didn't happen instinatnouly, It happend over billions of years.

Take a trip trough the Big Bang

I'll take a look at your websites and see what they came up with. Science as always is a work in progress so obivously we don't have a complete answer yet, but to misrepresent the views of convetional physics as a way to dismiss them is wrong (Also happends to be called Straw man fallacy).
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