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Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin Ladin

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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin Ladin Reply with quote

Hello Forum Members:

One of my favorite movies is "A Few Good Men". It is a story of military corruption and the inner workings of a military courtroom to bring justice to both the guilty and the acquitted. It shows that even in the finest of organizations there will be scoundrels requiring a counterbalance of a "few good men" to rectify wrongs.

Please be patient as I throw out my thoughts to you regarding Osama bin Ladin, his continued declared intent against America and whether in view of Qur'anic principles he is in alignment with principles of governance and jurisprudence for the Muslim. Understand I am a baby, compared to Dr. Shabbir and others who grace the forum, so in advance, save the wheat and blow away the chaff.

Osama bin Ladin has stated a desire for a worldwide Caliphate. It would be the desire of most Muslims to see the Deen of Allah established in the earth. Just as you allow his Deen in your hearts, you also wish for government to be configured along the same Islamic principles and guidelines.

But Osama bin Ladin has erred on several fronts. If we go back in history and view the progression through which Rasool Muhammad took people from the "Secret Call" to the time of a nascent Islamic state in Madinah there are distinct differences between the approximately 2/3 of the revelation given in Makkah and the remainder, from the ten years in Madinah. During the Makki revelation topics such as Tawheed, 'Ibadat, Risalah and Mu'amilat are addressed. The weakened Ummah is encouraged to practice "tying of the hands" during adversity and also allowances made for fleeing persecution, as the Abbysinian pilgrims took upon themselves. But during the Madani revelation we see introduction as to what we in the West call the ayat of the Sword of Allah, with the introduction of the term "qital" for instance, administrative issues such as Zakat addressed and punishment for criminal offenses.

So we see a definite pattern of a progression of thought, just as the Muslim is expected to progress in thought in each generation. The early years of the state, concerned its self with the welfare of a weakened but growing Ummah. The later years, when the state was strengthened, brought guidance regarding foreign policy, government administration and the formation of a standing and ready army for defense of perimeter.

The Qur'an and Sunnah is further understood making distinction between nusus, which are the unambiguous and unchangeable ordinances from which Shar'iah forms its base, and ijtihad, from which each generation uses the fountain of wisdom allocated by Allah to them, for their benefit.

While the Qur'an provides nusus, which is the stone, ijtihad provides the stonecrafting ability in issues of legislation. You are meant to retain the stone, but also take from the stone, to craft and form each succeeding modern Muslim state.

The allegory can be found in the story of Musa in the Torah who was told to strike the stone, and from it, a spring of water gushed to quench the thirst of the people in the desert. So the stone is retained, but it is from the stone, that ijtihad also issues forth like "living water" to meet the needs of each new generation of Muslim.

In holding fast to the teachings of the Sahabah and the four Rightly Guided Caliph, there is not the need for mimicry of action, but retention of principles. Each Caliph, exapnded and modified their government at will, within the confines of ijtihad under the shade of Al-Qur'an. As such, Umar established a diwah, after the Persian model and also brought prohibition of landed property to Islamic warriors as part of the booty. The manner into which each of the four Caliph came to power also bore disinct differences, with the last one Ali, attaining leadership by a vote in the Prophet's Masjid.

So al-Qur'an 5:48 allows for both Divine Law and an open road, which is free enquiry and concensus, from which fundamentals of government can be crafted.

So now we get to Osama bin Ladin. He has not engaged statecraft but rather disorder. He does not have legitimate authority and is not vetted by an Islamic government, holding no position of power other than that which he has conveyed on himself. He does not have the capability to be a signatory to a treaty, neither does he lead into the battle along the front lines. If we are to establish a standard- al-furqan- and that standard is based on the Qur'an, where does this man belong in regards to a modern Islamic state?

It is furidah to attain to knowledge. You are enjoined to the highest level of duty to remove with your own hand, to set aright, that which is wrong in your Islamic community.

Osama bin Ladin must be given up by his own, into the hands of his own, so that Islamic jurisprudence can be sharpened and gain in credibility. Just as in the aforementioned film, it was difficult to prosecute one from our own ranks, so it will be for many of you. And for those who cannot engage in action, the Prophet enjoins both jihad bil qalam and jihad bil lisan.

Thank you for reading my thoughts.

Tammy Swofford
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noman waseem

Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 64
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't know anything about Osama bin Ladin beyond what I hear in the news, even if only a portion of what is reported were correct, this man would still be far from the ideals of Islam. Far enough away, infact, to make any mention of his name essentially meaningless next to the names of Prophet Mohammed's (PBUH) wonderful companions.

Pronouncing oneself as Muslim is indeed meaningless when one initiates an action with the exclusive intent of creating chaos, disorder and death to civilians or in general acting in opposition to the Quranic teachings. I doubt anyone in this forum was hoping for this man to accomplish anything related to the establishment of a true Islamic state. I certainly won't hold my breath.

Thank you for your time
Noman Waseem
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Arnold Yasin Mol

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Aleikum,

I agree with your thoughts Tammy. And your demand is right that he should be brought out, if he is not dead already.

But just as the Muslims must bring him about, so must you Americans bring out your criminals. The Christian Ideal is being ignored by President Bush and his Staff. He has killed thousands of people in the name of Democracy, but in reality in the name of oil and colonialism. Next time don't forget to mention other criminals too.

If we may believe they did it, then AlQuada has not killed more then 5000-6000 people. Compare this to the 500.000 people that has been killed by the American Government since their 'pay-back'.

This difference in number is not only absurd, it is outrageous and cannot be accepted. The Muslim lands are part of the world. They have humans on it. But their death toll is counted as if presenting a grocery list. Can we compare 5000 to 500.000 Tammy? Who will be seen as the criminals 2000 years from now?

Are you really focussing on the correct criminals? First look in the mirror before going outside......
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Dr. Shabbir
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a highly intellectual, interesting, yet, hot debate and my dear LCDR is no baby Smile

I seldom watch movies but A Few Good Men was indeed a great one. Even better than Tom Cruise was the veteran actor/ officer (don't recall his name Smile

I think, OBL, whatever he may be (or might have been) has been outstandingly successful in his deplorable mission, that of instilling fear in the hearts of humanity in general and in the USA in particular. Possibly, the West have helped him succeeed beyond his wildest imagination.

Caliphate: Stupid would be the Muslim wishing to live under the Caliphate as recently shown implemented by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The true Caliphate is what the exalted Prophet and his noble companions had established in the state of Madinah - a benevolent government with absolute peace, justice, equity, defense, freedom and prosperity among the masses within her borders. The Bible calls such a Caliphate as the Kingdom of God on earth.

PS: I think, it is highly unlikely for OBL surviviving to this day after all the illness, injury, being consistently on the run, a massive manhunt, constant surveillance and a huge bounty on his head. I consider him dead. Now it is the legacy, the OBL Syndrome that the world has to contend with.

I agree with Arnold that OBL is not the only high profile criminal in the world. There are too many to count in the East and the West.

"God Save The Queen!" - says the old British song Smile

Noman Waseem: A diamond in the rough?
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 186
Location: dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:00 am    Post subject: The Symbolism of Osama bin Ladin Reply with quote

Most likely Osama bin Ladin is still alive. No different than the "claims" of Abu Musab al-Zaraqawi being dead prior to his actual confirmed death by DNA match. Dead men, are no longer hunted men.

Osama bin Ladin represents not just the person at this point but also the ideology, whose back must be broken by skillfull use of the pen among the scholars with a goal of global standardization of teaching in your masajid. That must begin with your top masajid who retain Ph.D scholars and move downward via chain of command into the lesser realms, reaching at last into the small village masjid. Yes, tribal Islam will retain vestiges of hudood law which is outdated and superstitions regarding Jinn. But the scholars can indeed bring "surgical strikes" into the domain of the worst offenders, remove those that only speak hate, and replace them with imam who will work under scholarship.

As one residing under chain of command my own words must remain restrained on this forum regarding our own foreign policy, attempts to protect our own citizens. But there is a law of governance for nations that resides on a different plane than the law of individual governance. I believe in the application and legality of both. But it remains for each individual and government to capture that moment in time along the timeline in history in which they reside. Some will use it well. Others will waste it. I choose to maximize my time. smile

But in viewing what "could have happened" in Britain, the news of a plan to kidnap and behead a Muslim British military soldier, there are reasons for your community to quake and continue to remember that there are those in all domains capable of harnessing the hate, alienation and frustration of an individual to bring incalculable harm to society. As such, we actively pursued the Unabomber and the perpetrators of the Oklahoma City bombing to bring them to justice. In the case of the Unabomber, his own family provided the necessary lead that pointed the finger at him. He now resides in a secure lock-up, which is beneficial to society at large.

There remains much work, for each of us, does there not?

Best Regards,
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have deleted the last posts, they were off-topic and also childish from both sides. This will not be allowed on this forum. Don't use the Quran in such a way Safdar, and you Tammy should have known better.

If OBL still lives, he is protected because surround him believes he is doing good. The same accounts for President Bush who is protected by the people surrounding him. When will you as a people start pointing at him? A lot of naive thinking and chosen blindness towards your own government my dear Tammy. But time will learn.

Indeed a lot of work needs to be done!

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