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Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri
By:jawaid ahmed,uk
Date: Friday, 28 August 2020, 12:28 pm
In Response To: Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri (Masud Fahd, Haiti)

I see some are still reading the wealth of knowledge on this forum, 6 years for a reply.

The Ascension of Jesus, Raised up Alive!

Surah 12 verses 108-111
12:108 Say (O Prophet), “This is my way. Resting my call upon reason, I am calling you all to God - I and those who follow me.” Glory to God! And I am not one of those who ascribe divinity in any form besides Him.” [We do not invite through blind faith, vague dogmas or by stunning your intellect with miracles]
12:109 And even before you, We sent none but men (as messengers) to whom We revealed Our messages – (Men) chosen from the people of the townships. Have they then never journeyed about the earth to see what happened in the end to those who lived before them? But the home of the Hereafter is best for those who live upright. Will you not then, use reason?
12:110 There have been times when even the messengers had lost all hope of reformation and thought that they had been denied. Then came Our help. We saved everyone worthy of being saved. Without exception, We punished those who thrived on the fruit of others’ toil.
12:111 Indeed in the history of these men, there is a lesson for people of understanding. As for this Revelation, it could not possibly be a Hadith, fabricated. It confirms the (surviving Truth in) the previous Scriptures, and gives a detailed explanation of everything. And it is a Beacon and Mercy for all those who accept it. [2:101]

Jesus was only an apostle, a Messenger of Allah, who lived like everyone else. No mention of a God or a super pre-existent being coming down amongst us as believed by Christians and no mention that Jesus was bodily ‘raised up’ to Allah in some sort of supernatural levitation. If this was not a serious matter I would be laughing now.
The whole problem can be seen from the totally shameless way the following verse of the Quran is translated, having more to do with the Bible, yes that book again, than the pure Quran revealed by Allah fourteen hundred years ago:-

Surah 3 verse 55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall you all return to me, and I will judge between you about the matters over which you dispute.

Two little words are the cause of the problem in misunderstanding this verse and they are “wafat” and “rafa”.


Let us look at various verses from the Quran where this word is used and hopefully you will see the correct meaning without me explaining it first. Check the Arabic to see if I am trying to pull a fast one and give you a false understanding; thinking and finding out something yourself is sometimes much more beneficial than just being told, as per:-

Surah 96 verses 1-2
Read! In the name of your Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

Let us begin, or “READ” :-

Surah 2 verse 240
2:240 Men must testify in a written, legal will that, after their death (yutawaffawna), their widows will receive one year’s maintenance without their being obliged to leave the house. But, if they leave on their own accord, there is nothing wrong in letting them do whatever they wish to do with their own lives in a lawful manner. And God is Almighty, the Wise (and He grants this permission).

Surah 4 verse 15
If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them(yatawaffahunna), or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

Surah 4 verse 97
4:97 As for those who wrong their own ‘self’ by not striving until the angels (the Laws of death) (tawaffahuma) approach them, they are asked, “What kept you occupied?” They say, “We were weak and oppressed in the land.” The angels say, “Was not the earth of God spacious enough for you to migrate?” As for such, their habitation will be Hell, a miserable destination.

Clear now? No? Well here are some more:-

Surah 6 verses 60-61
6:60 He suspends your consciousness during sleep at night, and knows what you do by day, when awake. He resurrects you every morning until your life span is completed. Death is, likewise, a temporary suspension of consciousness and afterward to Him is your return (39:42). Then, He will inform you of what you really accomplished.
6:61 He is Supreme over His servants. His Laws guard your life until the inescapable Law of death approaches you. When death comes to one of you, Our couriers receive him without delay.

Surah 7 verses 34-37
7:34 All nations and communities determine the terms of their Rise and Fall in accordance with these Divine Laws. And these Laws work with meticulous timing, without delay and without hastening.
7:35 O Children of Adam! (I had revealed in the early stages of human civilization that I will keep sending My Guidance to you 2:213.) So, when messengers of your own come to you narrating My messages, those who will live upright and mend their ways, will have nothing to fear or grieve.
7:36 On the other hand, those who reject Our revelations and scorn them, will dwell in the Hellfire to live therein, forever.
7:37 Who can do a greater wrong than the one who invents lies about God, or belies His revelations? They get their due share according to the Law of Respite till Our couriers of death come to them saying, “Where are those on whom you called besides God?” They will respond, “They have left us hanging.” Then they will testify against themselves that they had been disbelievers.

Surah 7 verse 126
7:126 "Will you persecute us simply because we believed in the revelations of our Lord when they came to us? Our Lord! Strengthen our resolve and make us die as those who have surrendered to You

Surah 8 verses 49-51
8:49 The hypocrites, and those who harbor doubts in their hearts, taunted the believers, “Their religion has deluded them." But, whoever puts his trust in God, will find that God is Exalted in Might, Wise.
8:50 Only if you could perceive how the rejecters leave this world, as the angels put them to death. It is as if they were smiting their faces and backs, “Taste the doom of burning.”
8:51 “It is the result of your deeds that you sent forth with your own hands. God is never a tyrant to His servants.”

Surah 10 verse 104
10:104 Say, "O Mankind! If you have any doubt about the System that I am trying to establish, and if you believe that other parallel systems can be of avail to you, let us go ahead with our programs. I do not worship and obey those whom you worship and obey instead of God. But I obey God Who causes you to die (and Who controls the Laws of life and death of individuals and nations). I have been commanded to be of the believers.”

Surah 12 verse 101 (About Joseph ,Yusuf)
12:101 Then, Joseph prayed, “O My Lord! You have indeed bestowed upon me some power, and have imparted to me the insight into events. Originator of the heavens and the earth! You are my Protecting Friend in the world and the Hereafter. Help me remain committed to your Commands till the last breath (die), and be counted among those who help increase human potential.”

Surah 13 verses 36-40
13:36 Hence, they to whom We have given the Book, rejoice in what is revealed to you (O Prophet). But, among the (dissenting) groups, there are those who deny a part of it. Say, “I am commanded only that I serve God and associate none with Him. Unto Him I invite all mankind, and He is my goal.” [The dissenting groups even preach that some of the verses are abrogated or that they have a hidden meaning!]
13:37 Thus, We have revealed it, a Decisive Authority in Arabic. (O Prophet) indeed if you got influenced by people’s likes and dislikes after the knowledge has come to you, you will have no protector or defender against God.
13:38 And certainly We sent messengers before you, and We appointed for them wives and children as well. It was not given to any Messenger that he could bring a sign (the requital they hastened for), but it came according to God’s Law of Respite. For every rise and for every fall, there is a Written Law. [7:34. All messengers were mortal human beings and they conveyed God's Revelation as commanded. Please note that all of them had wives and children, and think of Jesus!]
13:39 God blots out and establishes communities according to His Laws. Nations rise and fall accordingly, and with Him is the Ultimate Decree.
13:40 (O Messenger) Whether We show you what We promise them, or cause you to die before that, your duty is to convey the Message. And the reckoning is Ours.

Surah 16 verse 70
16:70 And God has created you, and in time will cause you to die. There are some among you whose lives are prolonged to an abject old age, when they cease to know what they once knew so well. (The time to do good deeds is when you are capable.) Surely, God is All Knowing, the Powerful Appointer of His Laws. [22:5]

Some translations are even more explicit, Y Ali:-

16:70It is Allah who creates you and takes your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much): for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful.

Find your own verses, there are many more but I believe I have made my point.
Why say “raise you to Myself” for the one verse about Jesus but “death” for every other verse? Deceit; lie; falsehood; SUBMITTING TO SATAN AND NOT TO ALLAH! That is the answer. Where are the scholars of Islam now? Where are the Imams, the Muftis, and the Mullahs who week after week tell the Quranically illiterate that Jesus is not dead but is up in heaven, while we are awaiting his return? They even misquote the above verses to support their viewpoint that Jesus was physically raised up. In his book “Jesus did not die”, Harun Yahya has the following translation:-

Surah 3 verse 55
[God said:] "Jesus, I will take you back [mutawaffeeka] and raise you up [wa raafi`uka] to Me and purify you of those who are unbelievers. And I will place the people who follow you above those who are unbelievers until the Day of Resurrection..."

“I will take you back” from where to where? Nowhere does the Quran state that Jesus is sitting on the right hand side of God or transported into another dimension where time does not exist so that he will return a young man after 2000 years (so far!) (by reading the hadith and “understanding” the Quran from them, Harun Yahya says he knows it is the “end times” now, which Allah says only He knows, so Harun is better than Allah!!!! See Judgement Day section). He states that people do not always die when this word is used, according to the following verse:-

Surah 39 verse 42
It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.

Those that do not die when after their “souls” (conscience) are “taken out” are returned after their sleep. So, Harun states, that Jesus was taken up to Allah in his sleep and is still to return. Where have you seen sleeping people floating up in the air to return to their beds by morning? The verse does not confirm physical ascension and is just a “red herring” for those who already believe such “mumbo jumbo”. If the above verse is correct Jesus’ body should still be on earth in a state of hibernation or mummification, waiting for his “soul” to return. Things have just gone from the nonsensical to the ridiculous. Harun also falsely states that it is only in the figurative sense that “mutawaffeeka” means to “take the soul” since he cannot unprogramme his indoctrinated mind from this “Houdini” like magic trick. Our minds become unconscious of the world around us during sleep but has nothing to do with dying. That is why it is used to refer to EVERYONES soul being taken during sleep and not just that of Jesus. He was no different to us in this respect so the above verse is not supportive of ascension.
To put the above in perspective, here is Dr Shabbir and the right translation:-

3:55 “O Jesus! I will cause you to die of natural causes, I will exalt you in honour and I will clear you of the slander of the disbelievers. And I will cause those who truly follow you to dominate those who reject, until the Day of Resurrection. Eventually, all of you will return to Me. Then I will judge among you about that wherein you used to differ.” [Wafaat = Dying of natural causes. Rafa’ = Raising in honor]

(Just out of interest, we become unconscious while asleep and our “souls” are not aware of the world around us. When awake we see things by light entering into our eyes and being turned into a chemical message transmitted to the brain via the optic nerve from the eye. The object is actually a chemical representation of the real object in our brains. During sleep our brains are not receiving this information and as a result our “souls” are asleep as well. On Judgement day it is conceivable that our “souls” will be raised up by Allah so that we are able to see without this chemical interpretation of the world, but like everything I am trying to understand, Allah knows best.)
What is a cause of confusion in the minds of some are the following verses:-

Surah 4 verses 155-157
4:155 They incurred condemnation for breaking their Covenant, rejecting God’s revelations, and killing the prophets wrongfully. And for saying, “Our hearts are wrapped up; we have made up our minds.” Nay, God’s Law sets the seal on their hearts because of their persistent denial. They lost their faculties of reasoning. So they do not acknowledge the Truth, except a few.
4:156 And for their disbelief to the extent that they brought a terrible charge against Mary.
4:157 And for claiming, “We killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, God’s Messenger.” They never killed him and never crucified him. But it appeared so to them and the matter remained dubious to them. Those who hold conflicting views on this issue are indeed confused. They have no real knowledge but they are following mere conjecture. Very certainly, they never killed him.

It was possible to kill Messengers of Allah, the Jews had previously done so, but they did not kill Jesus. He was saved from dying by crucifixion and our Ulemas have said he levitated up to “seventh” heaven instead. The verses do not support this but only their not being able to kill him so we cannot then mistranslate the next verse, 158, as “God raised him to Himself”, but as this:-

4:158 Nay, God exalted him unto Himself. (They had plotted thinking that crucifixion was a death of dishonour. But God raised him in honour.) God is Almighty, Wise.

Another meaning of this word is also “relieving from duty” which could explain why Jesus was not heard of after his so-called crucifixion. The duty of every Messenger is to deliver the Message of Allah to the people. They were so hell bent on trying to stop Jesus that Allah relieved him of this duty and he quietly went away to live out the rest of his life away from the cesspool that Jerusalem had become. Maybe this is what was meant when Jesus said the following (speaking about the coming of a new Prophet who will rectify the falsehoods attributed to Jesus and his Mother, but which Muslims have equally offended),

Bible, John, chapter 16
16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
16:6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you

This is worth considering and still makes more sense than Jesus as a “Sleeping beauty”, no doubt waiting for Prince Charming Harun Yahya to kiss him on the cheek to awaken him.
Now another match to light the flames of the Kafir (those who follow falsehood but wrongfully believe they are on the right path!) in their eternal abode of Hell:-


The word RAFA means “raised up” but it has nothing to do with physically “going up”, and is more correctly “raised in honour, exalted”. It is translated and understood as exalted and honoured when referring to other Prophets but is never translated as “raised up alive unto Himself” for them. Why?

Surah 19 verses 56-58
19:56 And make mention of Idris (Enoch) in the Book. Surely, he was a man of Truth, a Prophet.
19:57 And We raised him to a high station of honour.
19:58 These are some of the prophets whom God Blessed. They all were from the descendants of Adam, the early humans. The descendants of those whom We carried with Noah on the Ark, and the descendants of Abraham and Jacob, the Israel. We guided them and selected them. Whenever the messages of the Most Gracious were conveyed to them, they would fall down prostrate in tears. [Devoted to submission, they put their hearts into their mission]

Those who followed the Word of Allah were “raised up” in honour due to their practicing the right way approved by Him and not their own vain desires. Also look at these verses:-

Surah 21 verses 25-29
21:25 We sent no Messenger before you without having revealed to him, “There is no god but Me, therefore you shall worship Me alone.”
21:26 And some say, “The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son. Glory to Him! They are but servants raised in honor.
21:27 They do not precede to convey any word (as Revelation) before He has revealed it to them, and they act by His Command.”
21:28 He knows their future and their past. They cannot intercede, except that they may stand up as witnesses for those who have earned a bond of His Approval in the worldly life. And they stand in awe and reverence of His Glory. [6:15, 19:87]
21:29 Any person who claims, “Indeed, I have Divine powers beside Him,” We reward him with Hell. Thus We repay the wrongdoers.

Surah 43 verse 32
43:32 Are they the ones who distribute your Lord's Grace? Nay, it is We Who distribute among them even their material needs in the life of the world. And We raise some of them by degrees above others, so that they might help one another (with different skills). But this Grace of your Lord (the revealed Guidance) is better than all (the treasures) that they may amass. [16:53, 16:71]

Surah 6 verse 83
6:83 This is the logic (examples of the star, the moon and the sun) that We taught Abraham (Ibrahim) against his people. We exalt people in ranks when they follow Our Laws. Your Lord is Wise, All Knowing.

‘Raised to degrees of wisdom and deeds’, or raised them up alive?

Surah 6 verse 165
6:165 He it is Who has made you the inheritors of the earth after other nations. He determines your ranks, some above others (according to His Laws). He tries you in what He has given you, for your Lord is Swift in grasping. Yet, indeed, He is Forgiving, Merciful. [10:14, 13:11. Nations determine their own condition and destiny according to the Laws of Rise and Fall of Nations given in the Qur’an]

How many of them went floating up in the air like Mary Poppins?

Surah 7 verses 175-177
7:175 And tell them what happened to him whom Our messages were conveyed but he cast them off. Thus Satan (his selfish desire) overpowered him until he became of those who lose their way.
7:176 He could have raised himself in honour according to Our Laws, but he clung to the earth and followed his own desire. Therefore his likeness is as the likeness of a dog. Whether you pet him or scold him, he pants. Such is the example of nations that deny Our revelations. So, relate this narration that they may reflect. [If it had been Our Will = If so applied Our Laws. God’s Revelation lightens your burdens, while manmade dogmas burden you. 7:157]
7:177 Indeed, pitiable is the example of those who reject Our verses, since they hurt their own ‘selves’.

He would have elevated himself to a better way of life on this earth if he had followed the Revelation of Allah, again not helped himself float up to heaven alive! Were they filled with Helium, Mullah Saab?

Look at the following by Yusuf Ali:-

Surah 12 verse 76
So he began (the search) with their baggage, before (he came to) the baggage of his brother: at length he brought it out of his brother's baggage. Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not take his brother by the law of the king except that Allah willed it (so). We raise to degrees (of wisdom) whom We please: but over all endued with knowledge is one, the All-Knowing.

“Raised with wisdom”, if Y. Ali knows this when he translates the story of Joseph then why the “raised alive” with Jesus? Spread mischief and lies about our Provider, Allah, and the consequences are clearly spelt out for you in the Quran; HELLFIRE.

And those who do not follow the Guidance of Allah;

Surah 22 verse 18
22:18 Do you not see that whoever is in the heavens and on earth, the sun and the moon, the stars and the mountains, the trees, the animals, and a great many of human beings adore God? And there are a great many human beings who make themselves worthy of Requital. And those whom the God shall disgrace, none can raise to honour. For, God works according to His Laws.

Previous Messengers were honourable servants of Allah and definitely not all floating up to heaven in a mystical, millennial ascension. Those of humanity who deviate from the Guidance are disgraced and again the meaning is straight forward and does not involve the false understanding of “raised up alive”.

Surah 24 verses 36-37
24:36 This Light-giving Lamp glows in houses that God has caused to be exalted, that His Name be celebrated in them. In them, He is Glory is extolled in the mornings and in the evenings. [The dwellers therein strive to raise His Name day and night]
24:37 (These are not the communities of monks but) they are such that neither trade nor sale can divert from the remembrance of God. They keep striving to consolidate the Divine System and set up the Just Economic Order of Zakaat in the society. They have awesome consciousness of the Day when hearts and eyes will be horrified. [50:20]

Men and women who follow Allah are to be raised to honour; they are not all floating up to heaven, are they? Are their houses floating up to heaven? How ridiculous can you get by believing that Allah would physically raise up one man and then interpret the rest of the verses that have this same word as becoming honourable! You are following the Jews and Christians who have succeeded in changing you over to their man made beliefs. What does it matter if Allah says He will protect the Quran from corruption when you are corrupting it by way of false interpretation? One billion Christians believe Jesus is god, are you going to damn yourself further to hell by accepting this falsehood? Give it time; it will happen unless you return to the Quran with clear minds, undistorted by idolatrous beliefs.
As concerning Jesus, the raising in honour, to confirm my understanding of Surah3 verse 55, is mentioned in the following verse which consigns to the pages of history the fairy tale beliefs handed down by most of our ancestors:-

Surah 2 verses 252-253.
2:252 These are the verses of God that We recite to you in absolute Truth. And (O Muhammad) You are among Our messengers.
2:253 (All messengers were one in Purpose. They were assigned different strategies suitable to their times, locations and people.) We caused some of those messengers to excel others. God spoke to some of them. Others He raised in degrees of high honour. Jesus son of Mary was one of those messengers whom We gave clear signs of Truth and helped him with Sacred Revelation. If God had so willed, the later generations would not have fought among themselves after clear evidence of the Truth had come to them. But they chose to differ, some believing and others rejecting. (Again) if God had so willed, they would not have fought. But God makes Laws as He wills.
[All messengers one in purpose - 2:136, 2:285. God did not create human beings like programmed robots. He endowed men and women with free will, and never ordained compulsion in religion (2:256). God makes His Laws in the World of Command as He wills, and implements them in the World of Creation. (7:54). And He never changes His Laws. 6:15, 6:34, 7:54, 10:64, 17:77, 30:30, 33:62, 35:43, 48:23. Roohul Qudus = The Noble Revelation = Gabriel 2:87, 5:110, 16:102]

Preceding the mentioning of Jesus is the phrase “raising in honour” so why are we debasing ourselves by believing in nonsense “twilight zone” fables?

So, my brothers and sisters in Islam do not submit your Allah given intellects to the scholars who have ulterior motives when they translate the Quran or lecture you on our beliefs and practices. You must be able to use the pure Quran to judge right from wrong and not apply falsehood to its meaning which is a corruption that man has always done to Revelation from Allah. I am not writing this for my own amusement, I am trying to show you how far you have deviated from the Word of Allah and bring you back on the straight path.
Now take a look at;-

Surah 4 verses 155-159
4:155 They incurred condemnation for breaking their Covenant, rejecting God’s revelations, and killing the prophets wrongfully. And for saying, “Our hearts are wrapped up; we have made up our minds.” Nay, God’s Law sets the seal on their hearts because of their persistent denial. They lost their faculties of reasoning. So they do not acknowledge the Truth, except a few.
4:156 And for their disbelief to the extent that they brought a terrible charge against Mary.
4:157 And for claiming, “We killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, God’s Messenger.” They never killed him and never crucified him. But it appeared so to them and the matter remained dubious to them. Those who hold conflicting views on this issue are indeed confused. They have no real knowledge but they are following mere conjecture. Very certainly, they never killed him.
4:158 Nay, God exalted him unto Himself. (They had plotted thinking that crucifixion was a death of dishonor. But God raised him in honor.) God is Almighty, Wise.
4:159 Everyone among the People of the Book must believe before dying, in the Truth just stated. Jesus will be a witness against them on the Day of Resurrection [that he was neither crucified nor raised to the heavens. God is not confined to the heavens]

These verses clearly show that Jesus did not die on the cross, he did not come back from the dead as believed by the Christians and so did not float up to heaven as depicted in the gospels. All of us, including the Jews and the corrupted Christians, must only believe that Jesus was a man given Divine Revelation (the original Injeel and not the latter Gospels) to teach us right from wrong and it is this teaching that will save us from hellfire and not any obscene human bloody sacrifice.

Messages In This Thread

"Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri - IQ 18
*Dr. Shabbir, Florida -- Monday, 1 July 2013, 8:49 am
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri - IQ 18
Tanveer -- Friday, 1 August 2014, 12:08 am
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri - IQ 18
Moderators -- Friday, 1 August 2014, 12:25 am
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri - IQ 18
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 2 August 2014, 1:54 pm
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri - IQ 18
Nasim - Kansas -- Tuesday, 5 August 2014, 3:23 pm
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri - IQ 18
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 6 August 2014, 8:43 am
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri
Masud Fahd, Haiti -- Thursday, 27 August 2020, 7:00 am
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri
Khalil Khan Fakhtwala, Jamaica -- Thursday, 27 August 2020, 8:25 pm
Re: "Imam" Ibne Shahab Zahri
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 28 August 2020, 12:28 pm