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Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:18 pm
In Response To: Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk) (A Sayed (South Africa))

Br. Syed, thank you for your kind words. I am not a scholar though, just an elementary student of the book. Here are my two cents, before 3:49 I will review 5:110 more or less the exact repetition of 3:49. The difference between two narrations is, 3:49 is being foretold to Mary and 5:110 is after the fact recall of those events. Thus, what is recorded in 5:110 indeed happened and perhaps Jewish and Christians sources may have references to those events as well.

5:110: [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit, and you (i) spoke to the people IN THE CRADLE and in MATURITY; and (ii) when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and (iii) when you CREATED from clay like the FORM/SHAPE of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and (iv) you HEALED/CLEARED/MADE FREE THE BLIND AND THE LEPER with My permission; and (v) when you BROUGHT FORTH THE DEAD with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with (vi) clear proofs and (vii) those who disbelieved among them said, "THIS IS NOT BUT OBVIOUS MAGIC."

1. Only Jesus’ mom is mention, not his father since he had no father, else why God would only support Mary and Jesus and not her husband, Jesus’ father? Does God has a special grudge against Jesus' father? Nonsense.

2. Without going into details, the above is more or less word-for-word translation. It is very clear, concise, and to the point. These are clear unambiguous verses recalling the miraculous events that took place at the hands of Jesus. In the language, there is no ambiguity to translate these verses in any other way, neither these can be understood in any other way. Quran is CLEAR and MOBEEN, and these are not allegorical verses either.

3. Note at the end, the rejection of all these Signs from God, "THIS (referring to all above signs) IS NOT BUT OBVIOUS MAGIC." Thus, Jesus’ miracles were attributed to various tricks of magic and discarded by those who did not believe in him.

Now, let us see what br. Jawaid wrote:

“I HAVE COME unto you with a message from your Sustainer. I shall create for you out of clay, as it were, the shape of [your] destiny, and then breathe into it, so that it might become [your] destiny by God's leave;…”

Let us look at it with the Arabic.

[3:49]: “… Indeed I have come to you (all) with a sign (biāyatin) from your Lord, that I (annī) create for you (akhluqu lakum) from the clay like the form/shape (kahayati) of the bird (l-ṭayri – gentive masculine noun), then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird (ṭayran – accusative masculine noun) with the permission of Allah…..

In the above you see br. Jawaid has inserted “[your] destiny” where the actual Arabic words read “l-ṭayri – Bird”. This word is derived from ṭā yā rā and is extensively (19 times) used in Quran to mean “Bird” when used as a noun. For example, 2:260, 3:49, 5:110, 12:36, 16:79, etc. Arabic has another word for destiny.

Second, you note the term “it might become” inserted by Br. Jawaid. This is completely missing in the original Arabic. There is no “might”, rather God is categorically stating, it becomes a bird.

It is therefore obvious Br. Jawaid is bringing outside notions to conclude what he did, erroneously. Hope this helps.

Best Regards
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Virgin Birth Fan Club !
abdalaziz ariff / indiana -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 5:32 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club!
Dr Shabbir, Florida -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 4:07 pm
Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
Dr Shabbir, Florida -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 4:13 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 10:03 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
Saadia Khan (Moderator), Norway -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 3:31 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Moderator)
A Sayed (South Africa) / Moderator -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 5:58 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Moderator)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 3:50 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Moderator)
Khalil Khan, Jamaica -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 4:28 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
Shravan India -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 8:43 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
abdalaziz ariff / indiana -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 12:39 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
abdalaziz ariff / indiana -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 2:17 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 8:42 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 9:56 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 8:33 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 8:07 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 5:47 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 6:22 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
Basirul Haq Sinha, Dhaka -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 4:50 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 5:06 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 5:04 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:18 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 11 January 2018, 8:54 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 7:07 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 3:42 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 4:11 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 10:11 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 13 January 2018, 10:52 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 8:37 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dr Shabbir, Florida -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 9:28 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 11:17 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 January 2018, 8:49 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 12:47 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 9:03 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 January 2018, 8:54 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 12:29 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
ahmed -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 9:11 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 1:37 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 9:37 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Thursday, 11 January 2018, 2:39 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 12:16 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Tayo -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 5:34 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:25 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 9:49 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:38 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 11 January 2018, 9:09 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 9:59 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 13 January 2018, 10:58 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 8:32 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 January 2018, 9:05 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 12:25 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 1:44 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 1:39 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 2:51 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 1:44 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Shravan India -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 3:30 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Khalil Khan, Jamaica -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 3:51 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Shravan, India)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 6:25 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Shravan, India)
Khalil Khan, Jamaica -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 4:44 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Shravan, India)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 4:49 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Jawaid Ahmad, uk))
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 6:35 pm