Our Beacon Forum

Re: Millat of Ibrahim (Tayo), contn'd
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Monday, 8 January 2018, 10:42 pm

Salam Br. Tayo. Before I begin parsing your comments, please allow me to state, It is neither my aim to convince you nor I have any ability to do so. I am presenting what I understand from the book, in the language of the book, through lexicons, and tasreef, context, etc. In my review of these verses, your “blanket statement” is completely wrong.

You wrote: (1)Even as you say that forefathers,ancestors,uncles etc., can be from mom or dad's side ,then that is not valid here(Sura6:84,86,)these verses all refer to the male(Dad's)side of the ancestry.

This “male-stuff” is your misunderstanding. The revelation begins in 6:84 as follows:

[6:84]: And We gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - all [of them] We guided. And Noah, We guided before; and some (not all) among his (Noah’s) descendants (both Males and Females), David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the doers of good.

1. The verse above is mentioning “some (not all) among Noah’s Male descendants” because these are all prophets and no female was a prophet. This does not mean Noah did not have any female descendants who were guided by God.

After mentioning some prophets (not All), the verse 6:87 states: “And some among their ancestors and some among their descendants and some among their brothers - and We chose them and We guided them to a straight path.”

2. Ancestors include both maternal and paternal relations, 6-87 is directed at some of those ancestors of the abovementioned prophets. Otherwise, as per your illogic, the second phrase “their descendants” in 6:87 is only applicable to male descendants, which both logically and linguistically wrong. Thus, the only understanding is that both males and females are covered in 6:87 and applied wherever applicable or suitable.

You wrote: “Now this is a grown young lady being spoken of, here,we have seen that she was in Zachariah's care up to this time. My question, for what reason are they looking for someone to take care of a grown young woman? Perhaps you can twist this around,as Zachariah took care of her from childhood to her being a grown young woman,so who is going to take care of a grown young woman? Another person like Zachariah or a husband?Please answer my question.”

My brother you are not paying attention to the book, its unmatched style of presentation, and eloquent use of the language. Please take some notes, the context for 3:44 is starting from 3:35. If you continue 3:35 to 3: 43, you will notice, God informing prophet Muhammad of certain distant-past-remote news. When it gets to 3:44, the verse reads: “That, all the above past information (dhālika), is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.”

Thus, what is said in 3:37 regarding the “care of Zachariya” was the end result arrived at through the process described in 3:44. There is no husband here. Period.

You wrote: “(7)Take a look at Sura3:40, in reference to Zachariah's question about him having a son,the answer was ,"God does as He wills." now look at verse 47"That is how God creates what He wills." In closing don't you think it strange that the people around Mary didn't threaten to stone her to death, but you may notice that they didn't accuse her of committing adultery,why?”

Again, I stress, please pay attention to the language. Let us look at 3:40 first:

[3:40]: He said, "My Lord, how will I have a boy when I have reached old age and my wife is barren?" He (God) said, " kadhālika, like this, this way, through this mode/manner - God does (yafʿalu) what He wills."

Please note the word “kadhālika” and the English words I inserted above. Last part of the verse is explaining the mode/manner through which God will accomplish this, and that mode is via “yafʿalu = doing some appropriate action” as God wills or deems suitable. In other words, God is sanctioning as well as disregarding prophet Zachariya's concerns, and simply stating that is how God will do it. Please note, God did not mention the word “khalaq” here. Why? Because God cured the wife of prophet Zachariya to have a child. Now we return to 3:47 as to what was Mary’s response when she heard the news of a son and how God responded.

[3:47]: She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" He (God) said, kadhāliki: Thus, like this, this way/mode/manner - Allah creates (yakhluqu) what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.

I invite you to ponder over the last parts of both verses: Do you see some difference? Thus, Jesus had no father.

Best Regards,

Messages In This Thread

Re: Millat of Ibrahim (Tayo), contn'd
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 5 January 2018, 4:14 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim (Tayo), contn'd
Tayo -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 3:21 am
Re: Millat of Ibrahim (Tayo), contn'd
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 10:42 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim (Tayo), contn'd
Tayo -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 4:52 am
Re: Millat of Ibrahim (Tayo), contn'd
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 9:48 pm