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Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
By:jawaid ahmed,uk
Date: Monday, 8 January 2018, 8:42 am
In Response To: Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Shravan India)

Jesus, Son Of Mary

Another excuse presented as proof Jesus had no earthly father by the semi Christian ‘muslims’ is based on the Quran describing Jesus as son of Mary and the Quran says elsewhere to name adopted children after their fathers, so this is stretched to say Mary is the father of Jesus. Two verses to demonstrate this are:

2:87 We gave the Scripture to Moses, and after him We sent a succession of Messengers. And We gave JESUS SON OF MARY clear evidence of the truth and strengthened him with Ruh-il-Qudus. Yet, is it that whenever a Messenger came to you with messages that you did not desire, you resorted to self-glorification? And some of them you called impostors, and others you killed or tried to subdue. [Attempts to strike a deal with the Messengers to alter the revelations. 10:15, 11:113, 17:74, 68:9. Ruh-il-Qudus = Ruh-ul-Qudus = Ruh-il-Amin = Gabriel 2:87, 2:97, 2:253, 5:110, 16:2, 16:102, 26:193, 42:52]

33:5 Name and call your adopted children after their fathers. That is more just in the Sight of God. If you do not know their fathers then they are your brothers and sisters in Faith and your friends. There is no blame on you for an unintentional mistake. What counts is the intentions of your hearts, for, God is Forgiving, Merciful. [2:220]

Regarding son of Mary, the Quran has a chapter called Mary [Maryam], gives us many details including Mary’s birth, her going away from the temple to have a family etc, so she is the important figure in the life of Jesus, not his father. To address Jesus as son of Mary is to show the importance of Mary in his upbringing and gives her the respect she deserves. We do not accept Moses had no father when Aaron, his brother, addresses him as:

7:150 Moses returned to his people and was upset and grieved. He said, “You have chosen a terrible thing after me. Do you wish your Lord’s requital to smite you soon?” He put down the tablets of the commands among them and questioned his brother, Aaron, very strictly. Aaron explained, "O SON OF MY MOTHER! These people treated me harshly and took my patience as weakness, and almost killed me. Let not my opponents rejoice, and do not count me among the wrongdoers." [20:86. Seizing the beard and head is indicative of interrogating harshly. Aaron had been extra patient with their idolatry to avoid division among them (20:94). Aaron, the Prophet of God, preferred Shirk over Sectarianism. This is how reprehensible sectarianism and division in religion is]

The Quran has the mother of Moses playing a key part in his early life; saving him in a ‘basket’[apparently], raising him in the household of Pharaoh, so again this woman is shown full respect in the Quran for the role she played. We have two examples of women associated with their sons, without mentioning a father, so this does not prove virgin birth.

28:7 We inspired the mother of Moses, “Nourish him and when you worry for his life, (place him in a box and) cast him into the river, and have no fear nor grieve. We shall bring him back to you and make him one of Our Messengers."

Let us take this one step further and ask if Abraham had a mother when only his father is mentioned in the Quran!
6:74 Remember when Abraham said to his father Azar (Terah), “How could you worship idols as gods? I see you and your people are in obvious error.” [Azar is called Terah in the Bible and Zarah in Talmud]
6:75 And to this end, We gave Abraham insight into the Mighty Dominion of the Universe so that he might attain firm conviction.

When Mary returned to her people, she alone is mentioned and not with her husband and this again throws people off since they do not understand that Mary is the central character in the life of Jesus so she alone is there.

19:27 Later, she returned to her people carrying the child with her. They said, "O Mary! You have come with an amazing thing (breaking the rules of the shrine).”

Son of My Father!

Regarding naming the sons after their fathers. This only applies to adopted sons who are named so that their paternity is not confused with their adopted parents. They are not their children, but they still need to be loved, cared for, raised as they would raise their own children, if not better as they have suffered a great loss. This naming plays no part in proving virgin birth and is a non-issue. To further prove this, look at:

6:84 We gave him Isaac the son, and Jacob the grandson, and We guided them. Before Abraham, We guided Noah and from his descendants, We guided David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. We thus reward the benefactors of humanity.
6:85 And Zacharias, John the Baptist, Jesus and Elijah (Elias); all in the ranks of the righteous who fulfilled the needs of mankind.
6:86 And Ishmael, Elisha (Al-Yasa’), Jonah (Yunus), and Lot (Lut). To all of them We gave distinction over people of their times.
6:87 And We gave distinction to some of their ancestors, children and siblings and guided them to the straight path. [This verse also negates the myth of Virgin Birth, as Jesus is included among Prophets whose fathers were blessed. [Aaba = Fathers = Forefathers = Ancestors]
6:88 This is the Guidance of God. He guides His servants according to His laws (4:88). If they had associated others with God, their actions would have been in vain.

Male ancestors, not female and you would expect the father of Jesus to be proved and included in this! Yusuf Ali has this rendering, which proves Jesus had a father, brothers/sisters and childredn:

6:87. (To them) and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.

Messages In This Thread

Virgin Birth Fan Club !
abdalaziz ariff / indiana -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 5:32 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club!
Dr Shabbir, Florida -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 4:07 pm
Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
Dr Shabbir, Florida -- Saturday, 6 January 2018, 4:13 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 10:03 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
Saadia Khan (Moderator), Norway -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 3:31 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Moderator)
A Sayed (South Africa) / Moderator -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 5:58 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Moderator)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 3:50 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior (Moderator)
Khalil Khan, Jamaica -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 4:28 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
Shravan India -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 8:43 pm
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
abdalaziz ariff / indiana -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 12:39 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
abdalaziz ariff / indiana -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 2:17 am
Re: Virgin Birth and Crucified Savior
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 8:42 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Sunday, 7 January 2018, 9:56 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 8 January 2018, 8:33 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 8:07 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 5:47 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 6:22 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
Basirul Haq Sinha, Dhaka -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 4:50 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 5:06 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 5:04 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmad,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:18 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 11 January 2018, 8:54 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 7:07 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 3:42 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 4:11 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 10:11 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 13 January 2018, 10:52 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 8:37 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dr Shabbir, Florida -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 9:28 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 11:17 pm
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 January 2018, 8:49 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 12:47 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 9:03 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 January 2018, 8:54 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 12:29 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
ahmed -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 9:11 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
Dawood, USA -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 1:37 am
Re: Elementary Fan Club ! (Jawaid Ahmed,uk)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 9:37 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club ! (Dawood, USA)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Thursday, 11 January 2018, 2:39 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 12:16 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Tayo -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 5:34 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:25 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 9:49 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 8:38 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 11 January 2018, 9:09 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 12 January 2018, 9:59 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 13 January 2018, 10:58 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 January 2018, 8:32 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 January 2018, 9:05 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 12:25 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 1:44 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 1:39 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 18 January 2018, 2:51 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Dawood, USA -- Saturday, 20 January 2018, 1:44 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Shravan India -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 3:30 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !
Khalil Khan, Jamaica -- Tuesday, 9 January 2018, 3:51 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Shravan, India)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 6:25 am
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Shravan, India)
Khalil Khan, Jamaica -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 4:44 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Shravan, India)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 4:49 pm
Re: Virgin Birth Fan Club !(Jawaid Ahmad, uk))
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 6:35 pm