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Re: Millat of Ibrahim
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 11:18 pm
In Response To: Re: Millat of Ibrahim (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “Do you deny the Quran when it gives you the creeds that Abraham followed and hence are an example for us; monotheism and no idol worshipping etc?”

Jawaid Bhai, don’t get into rhetorical questions, rather ask yourself what are the meanings of the term “Millat Ibrahim.” In line with lexicons I provided those meanings covering two distinct aspects: (i) Belief and (ii) practices in line with that belief. Monotheism is a belief system, falls under (i) just mentioned. Practices in line with this belief system are termed Manasiks=rites in Quran. These include Hajj, Saum, Salat, etc.

You wrote: “The Quran does not say you cannot stone to death an adulterer, do you accept this creed of Abraham?”

This is your misunderstanding. Quran is absolutely clear on what to do with adulterers, i.e. give them 100 lashes each. When Quran has rendered a judgement, now those who go against this judgement are violating the book. And you are taking a broad brush painting black and white whatever is in your sight.

You wrote: “If you are going to accept whatever the Jews have handed down to us as creeds of Abraham or your Arab ancestors, then anything and everything they do must be followed or else you are in violation of the Quran when it says follow the creed of Abraham! This meaning brings contradictions with other verses of the Quran that says we must only do and judge from the Quran. “

Who said, you accept whatever Jews have handed down to us? Don’t beat around the bush, bring the verses and the contradictions you are referring to. The term “we must only do …” above is your extrapolation. Quran is clear about the injunctions (do this and don’t do that, etc.), rest all is permissible if it does not contradict any of these injunctions. The judgement part is also your misunderstanding, I will deal with it with reference to 4:105 below.

You quoted 4:105 and 3:23 and then concluded: “The Jews and Christians are invited to the Quran and a 'muslim' is inviting us to the Bible! Quran says follow Quran, 'muslim' says follow ancestors! Treachery indeed.”

[4:105]: Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge (Hukm) between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.

You need to understand the Arabic Hukm=Judgement. Hukm is only rendered between two disputing parties. In 4:105, a deceitful party (khaeneen) is being described. Which is this party against whom God is guiding prophet not to be advocate for them. This party is described in 4:108, and the charge is that they plot by night against Muslims. To this, there were two camps in Muslims, one pleading in favor of them and one against them, thus, God’s judgement came to decide between them. It has nothing to do “following incestors, etc.” you wrote above.

Similarly, with reference to 3:23, who are the people being described in preceding and the following verses and what are the charges against them? Can’t you see the context and what is being talked about? The charge is those who kill prophets and those who order justice, see 3:21. It is to these people 3:23 is directed at. How is this related to following “ancestor and treachery ….” all nonsense?

My dear brother, all your arguments are based on misunderstanding or extra-quranic notions. Let the Quran speak for itself, else all your arguments are null and void.

Best Regards

Messages In This Thread

Millat of Ibrahim
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 1 November 2017, 9:02 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 2 November 2017, 8:24 am
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 6 November 2017, 11:25 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 8:44 am
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 11:18 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 8 November 2017, 2:51 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 9 November 2017, 10:35 pm
Re: Millat of Ibrahim
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 11 November 2017, 4:59 pm