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Re: Salaat and Hadith
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 12:34 am
In Response To: Re: Salaat and Hadith (Razi, India)

You wrote: “It is just not the wrong practice which God rejected but the excuse of hiding behind ancestor itself was rebuked by God, particularly in 2:170.”

Dear brother the verse is very clear, it begins with a command inviting them to follow “what God has revealed” and then God rebukes them for coming up with an untenable argument, i.e. following ancestors against the explicit injunctions in the Book. As I quoted earlier [4:26] God is not against following ancestors, rather following ancestors in opposition to explicitly revealed injunctions. My Quran only brothers are making untenable arguments based on confusion and misunderstanding of the book itself.

You wrote: “…. So 'Azan - call for prayers' can be given sanctity based on its historicity or in its beauty of words or in its attention drawing power but it cannot be claimed that this 'Azan' is sanctioned by God.”

I want to draw your attention to the last part in your comments, i.e. “…it cannot be claimed that this 'Azan' is sanctioned by God.” If God did not sanction something explicitly or implicitly, it immediately corrected the prophet for even minor things such as prophet forbidding something on himself. Since there is no verse in Quran correcting prophet related to the “call for prayers”, it is clearly understood to be sanctioned by God implicitly.

You wrote: “Regarding your insistence on "Creed of Ibrahim", Sir Jawaid has explained in detail and he is persistently asking you a direct question from where you are getting 'Ibrahimic Creed' but you always divert his questions and trying your best to make us believe that some of rituals/rites from the time of Prophet Ibrahim got deformed with the passage of time and God corrected them in Quran and some, like circumcision, remains intact, so God doesn't felt the need of even mentioning in them Quran.”

It is a well understood principle from the book that all is permissible except what is explicitly forbidden in the book. About circumcision, I responded to Jawaid bhai in another post, you may refer to. With regard to other Ibrahimic practices of Salat, Zakah, Saum, and Hajj, these are well attested within the Quran and I have provided verse after verse in this regard. I can only cite the evidence as I understand it. For example, Salat and its components, its pre-requisites, its timings, its purpose, etc. are well documented. People are either distorting the language or misunderstanding it to justify to themselves so that they don’t have to follow this command. It is as simple.

You wrote: “Brother Dawood your question "How come those elements become suspect…." expects from me to believe that current prayer, with more than 100 differences and numerous contradictions, is a ritual sanctioned by God not in Quran, but by virtue of its historicity. Sorry Dawood Bhai, for me Islam - Deen of Allah is 'completely' preserve in Quran and 'protected' by Allah.”

Dear brother, I am asking you to do anything. I am simply trying to state that Salat is a command, like any other, to be performed at specified times. You don’t want to follow the current practices, do it the way you infer it from the Quran. All necessary elements are in the Quran, provided you let the language speak for itself.

Your last question is a simple misunderstanding, not giving due consideration to book. To save time, copy-pasting from Joseph Islam on Salat:

• The details of ablution (4:43; 5:6)
• A need for a direction - Qiblah, specific for the ‘believers’ (Mu'mins) (2.143-44)
• Garments (7:31)
• Allusion of times: (4:103; 11:114; 17:78; 24:58; 30:18; 2:238: 20:58)
• That prayers must be observed on time (4:103)
• Followers of the previous scripture to observe their Qiblah and the Believers (Mu’mins) their own Qiblah (2:145)
• Prayer involves prostration (Sujood - 4:102; 48:29)
• There is more than one prayer (Prayer in plural used - Salawat) (2:238)
• There is a general form to prayer (2:238-39).
• Standing position (3:39; 4:102)
• Bowing down and prostrating (4:102; 22:26; 38:24; 48:29)
• Form is not required during times of emergencies, fear, and unusual circumstances (2:239)
• A mention of a call to prayer and congregation prayer (62:9)
• A warning not to abandon prayer as was done by people before (19:58-59) but to establish prayer (Numerous references)
• The purpose of prayer - To remember God alone (6:162; 20:14)
• Prayer involves utterance (4:43)
• The purpose to protect from sins (29:45)
• What to do in danger and the shortening of prayer (4:101)
• Garments and mention of a Masjid, or a place of prayer (7:31)
• The tone of prayer (17:110)
• There is a leader of prayer (4:102)

Now ask yourself, what is it that you don’t find in above?

Messages In This Thread

Re: Salaat and Hadith (Razi, India)
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 2 November 2017, 10:43 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Razi, India)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 3 November 2017, 8:55 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith
Razi, India -- Friday, 3 November 2017, 11:20 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 12:34 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 8 November 2017, 10:17 pm
not in Quran= ok to follow it!
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 9 November 2017, 6:24 pm
Re: not in Quran= ok to follow it!
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 10 November 2017, 11:03 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Friday, 3 November 2017, 4:03 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 6 November 2017, 8:28 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 12:38 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 8 November 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 9 November 2017, 6:34 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 10 November 2017, 10:57 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 11 November 2017, 4:26 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 14 November 2017, 11:45 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 16 November 2017, 8:33 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 17 November 2017, 12:22 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Razi -- Sunday, 19 November 2017, 9:26 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 20 November 2017, 10:19 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Razi, India -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:47 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Razi, India -- Thursday, 23 November 2017, 9:43 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:44 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 23 November 2017, 1:02 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Jawaid Ahmad)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Friday, 10 November 2017, 5:52 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Jawaid Ahmad)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 11 November 2017, 4:56 pm