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Re: Salaat and Hadith (Razi, India)
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Thursday, 2 November 2017, 10:43 pm

Salam Razi bhai, I am moving your last post up and responding to it here.

Dear brother there is some confusion in your thoughts at this time, I hope it will go away as you advance in your study of the book. I am glad you found your answers. For your comments related to “creed of Ibrahim”, please see my post on that subject. I will briefly (due to shortage of time) respond to your one comment below:

You wrote: “Quran is “Furqan” against which all the matters related to Deen of Allah will be tested and decided. All the commands, instructions, values are completely anchored in Quran itself and does not depend upon any other outside source. Only and only Quran is given guarantee of protection by God, therefore no other book or any practice howsoever old and howsoever broadly practiced can be raised to the level of Quran in terms of certitude.”

Dear brother, you have used the word “Furqan” derived from fā rā qāf. It simply means “to separate two things.” When this is used in connection with the revelation, it simply means “guidance provided by such revelations in terms of separating Right from Wrong.” It is the same book that endorses rather emphasizes and commands to follow the creed of Ibrahim, as you can see in my other post. Thus, those who don’t follow the Creed of Ibrahim they are doing something wrong. My question is “which elements in connection with the Creed of Ibrahim this book provided you with?” How come those elements become suspect and not worthy of your practice if you do believe in this Book?

Second aspect of your comments is related to tawatur in respect of old/new practices and you quoted 2:170, 6:148, 21:52-54 and 43:24.

1. First, Tawatur is an Arabic word, and is used in Quran but not in connection with endorsing or refuting something. If Quran is silent on something, how can you use Quran to decide what is right and wrong? An example is the call for prayers. Quran is silent on its words as well as the mode/manner of delivery, yet this call is well-known to Muslims. Can you use Quran to pick the Halal and Haram (if any) from it?

2. You are taking 2:170 out of context to prove your point, it cannot be. What is 2:170 talking about and with reference to whom? To know this read preceding verses, particularly 2:168 as well as 2:171. It simply points to eating of certain food Halal/haram and Tayyab by disbelievers. Where is it talking about tawatur in terms of particularly Ibrahimic practices? Does 2:170 say anything about the Creed of Ibrahim and related practices? Nothing. Yet, my brothers are all over the place quoting this verse to prove something altogether different. Isn’t it time to pause and reflect?

3. Similarly, 6:148 is talking about “associating with Allah and forbidding certain things”, i.e. making things halal/haram. Again the context is in 6:146 and clearly not related to the salat, we are discussing here.

4. Similarly, 21:52-54 is when Ibrahim was talking to his father about idols they were carving and devoted to and they responded, we found our forefathers doing this. Again, a prophet of God talking to idol-worshippers and trying to persuade them to abandon that path. Is this in anyway related to “Ibrahimic Creed?” Ibrahimic Creed stands 180 opposite to what is related in these verses.

5. Putting all above together, it is obvious my brothers are taking things out of context, taking a broad brush and painting everything in black and white, a practice not suited to those who want to use their intellect.

6. Further, Quran is nowhere refuting all previous practices, on the contrary it seems endorsing those practices if not against its fundamental teachings:

[4:26]: Allah wants to make clear to you and guide you to the [good] practices (sunana = ways/practices) of those before you and to accept your repentance. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Best Regards,
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Re: Salaat and Hadith (Razi, India)
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 2 November 2017, 10:43 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Razi, India)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 3 November 2017, 8:55 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith
Razi, India -- Friday, 3 November 2017, 11:20 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 12:34 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 8 November 2017, 10:17 pm
not in Quran= ok to follow it!
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 9 November 2017, 6:24 pm
Re: not in Quran= ok to follow it!
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 10 November 2017, 11:03 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Friday, 3 November 2017, 4:03 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 6 November 2017, 8:28 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 12:38 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 7 November 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 8 November 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 9 November 2017, 6:34 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 10 November 2017, 10:57 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 11 November 2017, 4:26 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 14 November 2017, 11:45 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 16 November 2017, 8:33 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 17 November 2017, 12:22 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Razi -- Sunday, 19 November 2017, 9:26 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 20 November 2017, 10:19 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Razi, India -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:47 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Razi, India -- Thursday, 23 November 2017, 9:43 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 21 November 2017, 8:44 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Dawood, USA)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 23 November 2017, 1:02 pm
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Jawaid Ahmad)
A Sayed (South Africa) -- Friday, 10 November 2017, 5:52 am
Re: Salaat and Hadith (Jawaid Ahmad)
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 11 November 2017, 4:56 pm