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Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
By:Tahir Canada
Date: Friday, 22 September 2017, 7:36 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd (Dawood, USA)

Dawood Bhai you wrote: "Yes, indeed you should be amazed, as I am. You come up with bizarre theories/ideas/notions without an iota of support from the language, grammar, lexicon, and then mount the verses of Quran with those erroneous notions, and then claim others should follow your lead. Jawaid bhai provided a reference to “salat=following closely”, I have already provided you the basis for the words/phrases from classic lexicon, refuting this understanding in totality. Do you have anything to say on this account? Suggesting me to review an erroneous understanding again and again speak of what?"

Please reflect on 2:256 and try to understand:

1- No ikra in Deen. So when did I force you to follow my understanding? We have to distinguish truth from falsehood ourselves using Allah's Guidance.

2- What taghoot means? Are we careful enough to follow the Quran and not taghoot?

3- Do we understand that "urwa tul wuthqa" is Allah's guidance for all mankind preserved and explained in The Quran only. For me following ancestors, lughats and tafaseer if they are not in accordance with The Quran, means nothing.

لَآ إِكۡرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ‌ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشۡدُ مِنَ ٱلۡغَىِّ‌ۚ فَمَن يَكۡفُرۡ بِٱلطَّـٰغُوتِ وَيُؤۡمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسۡتَمۡسَكَ بِٱلۡعُرۡوَةِ ٱلۡوُثۡقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا‌ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

(Although this Message has been sent down by the Almighty) there is absolutely
no compulsion or coercion in Religion. The right direction has been made
distinct from error. So, whoever rejects false gods (such as the clergy, human
'authorities') and attains conviction in God, has grasped the Unbreakable
Support. God is Hearer, Knower. [No compulsion in matters of religion - This
Rule shall have no exceptions since Right has been distinguished from Wrong.
2:148, 2:193, 2:256, 4:88, 5:48, 6:104, 6:107-108, 7:177-178, 10:99, 12:108,
18:29, 22:39-40, 27:80-81, 39:41, 56:79, 73:19. At-Taaghoot = Those who,
in rebellion to the One True God, claim to have Divine powers or try to portray
themselves as His representatives = Sufis, mystics, priesthood, clergy, tyrants.
Tagha = Rebellion. Idols of stones cannot rebel and therefore, they cannot
be At-Taaghoot]

You wrote: “Bring an understanding which is close to the language in terms of grammar, lexicon, etc. Your logic and reasoning should be in line with the language, else it is dead on arrival. I hope you know the definition of Muqalids, they come in many garbs, old and modern."

Again please reflect on 2:256. Yes I am a muqallid of The Quran.

You wrote: “Is your claim of “salat=following closely” new or mine? Is this new definition of Salat yours or mine? Yet, you are asking me to do away with the more than 1400 years of understanding of the term salat by those who spoke that language? Does it speak of something about you who make such claims?"

Are you sure that salat=ritual prayer is 1400 years old? You cannot prove that ritual prayer is 1400 years old unless you depend upon conjectures written in tafseer and hadith. The verses of The Quran about salat have to be understood in context. Please read all those verses with the context and see how Allah has made them clear for us to understand and follow them closely.

Regarding majority this is what The Quran says:

6:116 وَإِن تُطِعۡ أَڪۡثَرَ مَن فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ‌ۚ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا ٱلظَّنَّ وَإِنۡ هُمۡ إِلَّا يَخۡرُصُونَ

(People will confront you with what the majority is doing, as proof of right and
wrong.) Now if you pay heed to, or get intimidated by majority of those who
live on earth, they will lead you astray from God's way. Most of the people
follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork.

12:106 وَمَا يُؤۡمِنُ أَڪۡثَرُهُم بِٱللَّهِ إِلَّا وَهُم مُّشۡرِكُونَ

The majority of people do not believe in God without remaining 'Mushriks'. ['Shirk'
= Idol worship in different forms. 'Mushrik' = One who calls upon gods
besides God, associates others with Him, or believes in false deities = One
who ascribes partners to Him, submits to false authorities, or follows clergy
instead of Divine Revelation = One who blindly follows his desires]

There are about 2.18 billion Christians in the world and they believe Jesus is son of God. Does that make it a truth?
There are about 1.1 billion Hindus in the world who believe that their stone idols can help them and bring them close to the Creator. Does that make it a truth?

Is following majority is the criteria to find the truth? Please reflect.

You wrote:"In my reply to Jawaid bhai under the Salat=following closely thread, I quoted a quote of a poet from Taj, which most likely referring to pre-Islamic days. Should I discard such historic understanding and run with your untenable claims?"

Are you referring the following post of yours to prove that ritual prayer is 1400 years old:

(quote) Jawaid bhai has been trashing history as not a good source of inferring anything, now he is basing his reason on such a history. This is proverbial running with the hare and hunting with the hound. If Jawaid bhai is interested in history, then Allama Iqbal’s this observation should be good enough:

Aa Gaya Ain Laraai Mein Agar Waqt-e-Namaz
Qibla Ru Ho Ke Zameen Bos Huwi Qoum-e-Hijaz (unquote)

I understand that Allama Iqbal lived Nov 9, 1877 - Apr 21, 1938 (age 60). His poetry reflects what he saw around him 1400 years after the prophet. Does it make a solid proof for your understanding.

Best regards,

Tahir

Messages In This Thread

Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 13 September 2017, 9:50 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 14 September 2017, 3:39 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Mubashir, Canada -- Saturday, 16 September 2017, 5:52 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 18 September 2017, 10:15 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 19 September 2017, 12:13 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 21 September 2017, 10:55 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 22 September 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 25 September 2017, 10:12 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 26 September 2017, 7:17 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 29 September 2017, 9:25 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Tahir Canada -- Tuesday, 19 September 2017, 1:49 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 19 September 2017, 3:39 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 21 September 2017, 11:25 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Tahir Canada -- Friday, 22 September 2017, 7:36 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 25 September 2017, 10:38 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Tahir Canada -- Tuesday, 26 September 2017, 6:22 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, (Tahir) cont'd
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 29 September 2017, 9:27 pm