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Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Monday, 31 July 2017, 7:59 pm
In Response To: Pray as you see the Messenger pray (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “Dawood bhai has the premise that the actions of the namaz ritual were given to the Messenger via first contact revelation, which he then passed on to his followers so there was no need to put these in the Quran. Follow the creed of Abraham is devoid of the rituals in the Quran and this is the same extra Quran knowledge of praying etc.”

What I am saying is this: Salat as ritual prayers was well-known to Arabs since Ibrahim. It was however contaminated. It is possible both its form and contents were devoid of God’s remembrance. God must have informed the prophet through Jibreel how the salat must be reformed and performed, else it makes no sense to order someone to do something without him/her knowing what to be done. In my opinion this must have happened at the beginning of his ministry which is depicted in early part of Chap 53.

Creed of Ibrahim is not devoid of rituals in Quran, rather it is you who is repeating this untrue mantra. Quran is clearly mentioning Salat, and Hajj related “manasiks = religious practices” with reference to Ibrahim. This is not extraquranic knowledge, it is in the Quran. For example, wudu, qiam, ruku, and sujood related to Salat are in the Quran. You are bringing outside extraquranic notions to do away with the Quranic salat.

You wrote: “Is there a verse in the Quran that says 'do prayers as you see the Messenger doing' or similar words that ask us to follow the messenger as he performs a prayer.”

It is better than that.

[4:102]: And when you are among them and you stand/lead the salat/prayer for them, let a group of them stand [in prayer] with you …..

4:102 is not just asking them to see him praying, rather pray behind him. It is more powerful than what you are asking for. When the above was revealed, did companions performed the salat under prophet’s leadership and guidance? Yes, NO? Absolutely, Yes. Did they not see him praying and follow him exactly?

You wrote: “Note- establishing salat is not the same as performing salat according to the 'sunnah', way, of the Messenger and there must be clear wording that a physical act is to be performed according to the way the Messenger does/did it.”

Where is the word “establish” in Arabic related to Salat? The word used in connection with Salat is derived from qāf wāw mīm. This word when translated in English would mean: Qama’ = he stood still, stood up or erect; Qama’t da’batu = the beast stopped from journeying or fatigue, etc.; Qama’ bilayil = he stood/rose during night to pray; Qama tisalatu = the people rose to prayer, or the time of prayer came to pass; Aqama’ salata’ = He observed/performed prayers. Establish is not one of the original meanings, rather one of the inferred meanings to state or convey that “prayers be performed with due care and diligence,” thus, the word establish.

You wrote: “I am not trying to nail anyone down, but I do not want a verse open to interpretation or 'it can be understood by Dawood and no one else in history' that it says this because he knows what went on in unrecorded events.”

LoL on 'it can be understood by Dawood and no one else in history'. My brother, you have been despising “history” all along, now the same history is being used to support your argument? How convenient. Dawood does not know what went on in unrecorded history, rather Dawood is putting God’s verses in perspective as he understands them, giving due care to language, lexicon, grammar, and context. It is human effort, Dawood could be wrong. What you need to do is just reason it out where and how Dawood is in error?

With reference to 45:18, the basics of Salat are wudu, qiam, ruku, and sujood, along with quranic recitation. Minor details such as where to put your hands, feet, say takbir loud or in silence, etc. are minor details, having no bearing on Salat and its purpose.

Best Regards,
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Pray as you see the Messenger pray
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 27 July 2017, 8:41 am
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Rashid Jawaid -- Friday, 28 July 2017, 8:14 am
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Sidqi.ca -- Friday, 28 July 2017, 7:05 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Mubashir, Canada -- Sunday, 30 July 2017, 6:32 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Mubashir, Canada -- Sunday, 30 July 2017, 6:34 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 31 July 2017, 7:59 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 1 August 2017, 7:40 am
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 2 August 2017, 9:45 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 3 August 2017, 8:01 am
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 3 August 2017, 8:02 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Yusuf, Texas -- Wednesday, 2 August 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 2 August 2017, 10:03 pm
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 3 August 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Pray as you see the Messenger pray
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 3 August 2017, 7:55 pm