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Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Thursday, 6 July 2017, 9:44 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “Brother Dawood, I gave you numerous verses which stated that the only Message given to the Messenger was the Quran which was all he was told to follow, judge by, pass on to us etc. Where does the Quran say he had other ‘revelation’ not recorded in the Quran?”

Yes, Jawaid bhai, you gave me numerous verses. Yet none of them stated the “only” aspect of your assertion.

Please refer back to the verse 53:10 and then link it up with prophet’s speech (yanṭiqu) in 53:3 and 53:4. This is not referring to the Quran only. Quran clearly states that prophet was not even aware of what is the Book and Eman, 42:52. Thus, without making the prophet first aware of God, Eman, etc., he could not have become messenger of God, as is recorded for Moses. Please differentiate between the two aspects of Wahi, inspiration, and Nuzool. Wahi with just inspiration is similar to what Moses’ mother was inspired to do something in 28:7 and to Moses himself in 7:160.

You wrote: “Answer: ‘Rites’ handed down from Abraham confirmed by Quran = monotheism belief in one God. Rites about salat and hajj, allegedly given to Abraham not mentioned in the Quran in context with Abraham, neither mentioned when addressing salat and hajj in other verses. Hence these rites are not confirmed by Quran.”

So from your logic it is evident, God meant only ONE Rite but He erroneously mentioned plural “RITES” in connection with Ibrahim and Muslims? Is that what you are asserting erroneously? These RITES are mentioned clearly, you cannot see them because you have willfully adopted “No rituals in Quran”. For example, Rites of salat are in 2:125: “…And Take from the standing place of Ibrahim, a place of prayer,…., those who bow down (Ruku) and those who prostrate (Sujood).” Thus, three elements, Qiam, Ruku, and Sujood of Ibrahimic salat are covered in one single verse, and you assert these are not covered in Quran? This is willful defiance, brother.

You wrote: “Answer: Innovation has taken the form of changing the meaning of words to the mindless physical rituals of salat=prayer, and physically bowing/prostrating when birdie and our shadows verses clearly demonstrate that submitting to the commands of Allah is asked of us. Abusing the understanding of the Quran in this way makes the fundamental elements non Quranic, and this is practiced by N2I, not Quranic Islam”

Yet another untenable assertion. What is your proof that “changing the meanings of words” has occurred? Give me one example from Quran, lexicons, or even history. Birdies and our shadow verses are allegorical, only for those who have “disease” in their hearts to bring in their wild notions and subvert clear Mubeen verses to their desires. This is the way, the abuse is occurring. Thus, you are bringing in N3I and not Quranic Islam.

I will be traveling for next two weeks or so, may not have time or internet access to read and post.

Best Regards,
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Noman Waseem, NJ -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 5:32 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 6:32 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 28 June 2017, 7:24 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 28 June 2017, 9:59 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 29 June 2017, 7:26 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 29 June 2017, 9:23 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 30 June 2017, 7:35 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 30 June 2017, 10:31 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Asif -- Saturday, 1 July 2017, 12:19 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 1 July 2017, 3:28 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 5 July 2017, 10:06 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 6 July 2017, 7:43 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 6 July 2017, 9:44 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 7 July 2017, 7:28 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 11 July 2017, 5:41 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Asif -- Thursday, 6 July 2017, 6:20 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 6 July 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Asif -- Saturday, 8 July 2017, 5:48 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 8 July 2017, 2:48 pm
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
Asif -- Sunday, 9 July 2017, 3:36 am
Re: Salat, Tasbih, Birds, and Other (jawaid ahmed
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 10 July 2017, 7:45 am