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Re: Salat and Qibla
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “If qibla is a physical direction , and their homes were each their qibla, then where did they pray towards? Did they make one wall of each of their homes the qibla, hence going against the Quran which says homes should be qibla? Did they pray towards another home, each doing it according to what they felt was right? Please explain as I have no idea how you understand this.”

These questions and observations are not keeping the context in view. The context leading up to 10:87 is that those who believed in Moses, they were under extreme persecution by Pharaoh. This time for them was a time of severe hardship. They could have perished or reverted to old days if not made firm in their belief, solely relying on God. This was the only requirement, i.e. stay focused on God for help. Under these circumstances, naturally they were looking up to Moses to help them, to calm them, to lessen their persecution and anxiety. Thus, the phrase “tabawwaā liqawmikumā bimiṣ'ra buyūtan = Settle/return your people in Egypt in houses” in 10:87 is a clear indication that God at this time did not want them to have any confrontation with Pharaoh and his people. Once they are back in their homes, how to strengthen their “reliance on God” and make them firm believer in God, ready to undergo hardships surely to follow. Then comes God’s recipe “make your houses a Qibla”, a direction unto itself, a place of worship where salat could be established. Salat is the mechanism every messenger used to get through such trying circumstances, it was same during the time of Moses, and it remains to be the same even today for every Muslim.

Now your question as to which direction within each house? Kaaba is a Qibla for Muslims. When people are in Masjid Alharam, which direction do they pray? They pray facing the cubical structure called “Kaaba”. If someone is inside this cubical structure, which direction would he pray? The direction now could be any corner, any wall. Similarly, the people of Moses made their houses places of worship where they established Salat facing any direction within the house.

You wrote: “Or they made their homes a qibla in order to be a place where Deen could be followed.”

Deen is a big word. When Moses came on the scene, the only requirement was “believe in One God.” People of Moses were being tested for this belief. Pharaoh was acting such a lord over his people that they needed his permission even to believe in something to begin with, see 7:123:

[7:123]: Said Pharaoh, "You believed in him before I gave you permission. Indeed, this is a conspiracy which you conspired in the city to expel therefrom its people. But you are going to know.

Thus, there was only this belief in One God = Deen at that time. This needed be perfected under severe persecution. Thus, establish Salat. Detail instructions and commandments came much later when they left Egypt.

You wrote: “You quoted 2:142 which says the Jews asked why the Kaabah was the centre for the Muslims when they had Jerusalem, chosen by God for the ‘chosen people’. God is everywhere and He can chose what He wants. The following links the qibla not with a means of physical prostration towards it, but setting up an ideology, the Deen, that they will not follow so will not ‘turn to’. They rejected the Quran so they will not look for Guidance from Mecca where this is set up in a practical shape.”

This is your misunderstanding to say the least. Here is 2:142 for your reference.

[2:142]: The foolish among the people will say, "What has turned them away from their qiblah, which they used to face?" Say, "To Allah belongs the east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a straight path."

Is there a word “Jews” in the above? Is it in the context? Where did Jews ask what you are stating, "why the Kaabah was the centre for the Muslims when they had Jerusalem"? All that you wrote above is bringing outside notions to bear on the verse 2:142. If EAST/WEST is a physical direction, then in the same verse “Qibla” is a physical direction. I asked you some questions related to this earlier, here these are for your reference once more:

1. Do you believe the “foolish” undoubtedly said “What has turned them away from their qiblah, which they used to face?" Yes, NO?

2. Did “foolish” said so after observing these people to turn from one Qibla to another? Yes, No?

3. Did “foolish” know what was the first Qibla of these people? Yes, No?

4. Did “foolish” know what was the Qibla these people switched to? Yes, No?

5. When “foolish” people saw THEM (those who switched their Qibla) turning from one Qibla to another Qibla, what were these people doing? Were they playing soccer, having a picnic, a meeting, a parliament debate, …..????

You wrote: “It is not PHYSICAL DIRECTION but the important thing to understand and follow the BOOK:”

Beginning with the faulty logic, then repeating it ad infinitum the same faulty logic will not make it stick. Please ponder.

You wrote: “Different physical Qiblas increase the risk of shirk because everyone will think they are right pointing in the direction they chose!”

“Pointing in the direction they chose” to do what? I point my finger to the “east”, you to the “west”, is it shirk? You are wandering clueless, my brother.

You wrote: “Yes, qibla is the place you turn to for getting instructions on how to follow God, what are His commands, how to put them into practice etc…”

Awesome!!! Should you turn to Kaaba, Qibla for Muslims, a building in Mecca, to get instructions how to follow God, or to the Quran? Do you find “instructions and His commands” written on Kaaba that you can get or these are in Quran? I can go on, but this is sufficient to show how misguided you are.

You wrote: “The NINE Signs of Moses: 6:150…..”

That is your misunderstanding. Read in the context, it has no relationship to Moses, rather what the Jews were doing at the time, and obvious corruption has crept in their book. God asking prophet Muhammad to convey what God has revealed to him. Moses’ nine signs are here: 1 in 7:106; 2 in 7:108 and 28:32; 2 in 7:130; and 5 in 7:133.

Rest of your responses are neither here nor there. You have generalized the book to an extent that you are trying to see the forest without trees. You want to understand the Quranic historical facts without recourse to such verses. You want to understand Quran without its verses.

At some point we have to take a break and move with other related topics.

Best Regards
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 9:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm