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Re: Salat and Qibla
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “You have completely missed the point. As Qibla is mentioned in the verse then a direction must be stated for them to pray towards. As ‘your homes’ are the Qiblas, then this negates a physical direction....”

No, homes being a Qibla does not negate a physical direction rather makes it easier, clear, and without confusion which direction to do salat. This also brings home another point, i.e. people of Moses knew that Salat and Qibla are linked together.

I might have misunderstood it, yet Qibla can only be “physical direction” and nothing else via Tasreef ul ayaat.

2:142 says, “For Allah is the East and the West. He guides whom He wills to a path straight.”

East and West are physical directions. When East/West, physical directions are brought to answer a concern by fools about the Qibla in the same verse, Qibla CANNOT be anything but the PHYSICAL DIRECTION. Thus, Qibla as a physical direction is established without an iota of doubt.

You wrote: “Why did the Quran not say make the home of Moses a Qibla to avoid all the confusion?”

No, there is no confusion. The confusion is in yourself which you are bringing on to bear on these verses. It is God who decided what should be the Qibla, not me and you. One reason could possibly be to avoid shirk in all its forms.

You wrote: “The reason is the Quran uses words in different scenarios and this should help us narrow down the meaning from the dictionary to the Quranic one.”

Great, but you don’t follow your own recipe. What you are stating is Tasreef-ul-Ayaat methodology, which you don’t follow. Look at my response to you above.

You wrote: “Homes as Qiblas must mean the followers were to make their homes a place of Deen which is the ideology, the direction of their faith, not a physical direction.”

There is only one thing mentioned in these verses, i.e. after belief, rely on God, and remain steadfast. If you want to call this ideology, I have no problem. This ideology need be strengthened. This was done via Salat. Salat and Qibla are brought together, therefore Salat needs Qibla. There was no Qibla as a central symbol for them at these early times for children of Israel. This confusion was avoided by allowing them to adopt their own homes as Qibla. Simple, straight forward, no need to bring extraquranic ideas and notions and contaminate the verses.

You wrote: “Moses was a Messenger to pharaoh, so he had A MESSAGE:…”

Yes, he had a message, and I told you the message was, “Let the children of Israel go with me and don’t torment them.” Period.

You have translated the word “ al-bayināt = clear signs” in various verses to be “messages”. This word cannot be translated as “messages”. Arabic has a well known word “Rasayil =messages” covered under “Ra Seen Lam”. Quran has used exactly this word in 7:144 “birisālātī = with my messages” in connection with Moses and his people after they left Egypt and Moses went for 40 nights. Further, no lexicon, like Lughat or Lane translate this word to be “messages.” Thus, your extraquranic notions are laid to rest.

You wrote: “You quoted 10:84 but begore that we have the Quran telling us what Moses was sent with Egypt with, with Our messages,”

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. No, quran is not telling us Moses was sent to God’s messages to Pharaoh. I have shown you above that there was only one message Moses brought to Pharaoh. All others were signs for them to see. I have not begored anything rather it is you who is bringing in your extraquranic ideas and desires and contaminating the pristine message of God. Bring your BURHAN my brother to prove your point.

Now, what Moses was sent to Pharaoh:

[17:101]: And We had certainly given Moses nine evident signs (āyātin bayyinātin), so ask the Children of Israel [about] when he came to them and Pharaoh said to him, "Indeed I think, O Moses, that you are affected by magic."

Among these nine signs was “Asah” of Moses. In 27:12 God is asking Moses to take these 9 signs to Pharaoh and his people.

In fact, via 17:101, God is asking prophet to ask Children of Israel about these things. You can ask them even today. Do they say messages or signs? Obviously signs, though they make these a bit different?

You wrote: “There would be no reason to turn away from what their ancestors had given them if it were just plagues done by Allah, and not true knowledge to reform them.”

This is your misunderstanding. Pharaoh is enslaving an entire nation, considering himself their lord. Moses comes to rescue them. This is what Pharaoh did not want to happen because this was their way of life since time immemorial. Pharaoh doubted Moses to be messenger of God, thus, those signs to show him that indeed Moses was a messenger of God. Moses is telling Pharaoh let these people go with me else you are doomed. This is precisely what happened. Although, in this process Moses did try to infuse some fear of God in him but to no avail. Read the verses with their context in mind without extraquranic notions, you will get the picture.

You wrote: “Brother Dawood, we should face the Kaaba because it was intended to be the centre, our UN building, but instead we are told to pray towards it.”

Bring a verse to show Kaaba is supposed to be our UN building.

God is telling us to pray/salat towards it. You are denying God’s verses and bringing in ideas to mistranslate these as per your desires. Thank God, we have the original Quran intact we can refer back to, else people like you will write a new translation every few years to suit their desires, like people of other religions have done with their books.

You wrote: “Allah is everywhere, not just east or west, closer than our life giving vein, the brain feeder, so wherever you face you may pray to ALLAH, EVEN LOOKING UP TO THE HEAVENS. But for what purpose? Does Allah need our prayers?”

Same God which is everywhere is telling us in Quran to face a particular direction while praying. You believe in part of the book and deny part of it?

The purpose to you or to anyone is not clear until unless you let go your notions of “what should be” instead of “what it is.” Allah does not need our prayers, it is your misconception. We need GOD IN OUR LIVES, if we are true believers. To this end, believers are commanded to do Salat, to cement His presence, His remembrance in our lives.

You wrote: “Does reading back His Book and physical prostration make you a better person? Or will you improve by doing what He says and then being thankful to Him for helping you?”

Again misunderstanding. When you are reading the book, you are not reading it for God or back to God, rather you are reading it for yourself, to remember God in all aspects. This is the fundamental purpose of the salat and verses read in there. When you do what these verses ask you to do, including doing Salat, that is the end result each one of us should be after.

Best Regards
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 9:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
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Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm