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Re: Salat and Qibla
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “I agree with points one and two, though not with your word in brackets “Qibla (the direction)”, there is a relationship between Qibla and Salat and I ask you to stand by these, your points 1 and 2, as I progress.”

Thank you, Jawaid Bhai. These points (1 and 2) establish, at the minimum, the relationship between Salat and Qibla. Thus, Qibla cannot be separated from Salat.

You wrote: “If Qibla is a direction to pray in then no particular direction is not a direction, not a qibla! Point 4 is also false, if no directions were given then why mention Qibla, as per my point 3 observation?”

First, please note, my points 3 and 4 have no bearings on 1 and 2. It is 1 and 2 that cement the relationship between Salat and Qibla.

Second, points 3 and 4 are my understanding, I could be wrong. God did not elaborate why he made their houses a Qibla. My understanding is that people at the time of Moses knew that there is a connection between Salat and Qibla, that Salat need be performed facing a particular direction, Qibla. If Moses had simply asked them to do salat in their houses, their natural question must have been, which direction? Thus, making houses a Qibla, the question of direction is taken care of. This way, they would not argue about it, they would not bother it, rather would concentrate on praying and making them strong in terms of their faith and relying on God in response to severe persecution by Pharaoh and his men.

You wrote: “You wrongly claim that Moses only had his snake and only told pharaoh to let the people go, but this is contradicted by the Quran that says Moses had inspiration and presented the ‘truth’ so had revelation from Allah to present to them.”

My brother, present the verses which state what you are stating. Verses are clear and unambiguous. I asked you earlier, tell me the “truth” which Moses presented. You could not do it. Bring a verse which tells you the “truth” Moses presented. Yes, Moses had a revelation, only then he could become a messenger of God. Yes, God revealed to him to go to Pharaoh and ask him to “let children of Israel go with me..” Yes, Moses talked about God and that God chose him to be His messenger, etc. But bring me your “truth” that you are alluding to? Bring me the contradiction in my statements and the Quran. I would readily accept if my conclusions are not in line with the book.

You wrote: “Another false assumption based on a pre-existing false understanding of the word qibla, since if they had no 'revelation' up to this point then we can do away with the Qibla at this point even though it is mentioned! Qibla is mentioned in the verse and you have presented points 3 and 4 to change the meaning of the verse to your understanding.”

A verse of the Quran that clearly establishes the linkage between Salat and Qibla, and you want to “do away with the Qibla” because it does not fit your desired meanings? Is this or should this be the Quran only approach? No, we cannot pick and choose verses and words at will.

At this point, Moses said this to his people.

[10:84]: And Moses said, "O my people, if you have believed in Allah , then rely upon Him, if you should be Muslims."

Moses people replied back to him:

[10:85-86]: So they said, "Upon Allah do we rely. Our Lord, make us not [objects of] trial for the wrongdoing people And save us by Your mercy from the disbelieving people."

Please look at this how difficult the situation was for those Muslims at that time. In response to this supplication of the believers, God revealed:

[10:87]: And We inspired to Moses and his brother, "Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses qiblah and establish prayer and give good tidings to the believers."

Now you see how beautifully everything falls in place. Believers are supplicating to God, God asking them to Establish Salat and don’t bother about any particular direction, just do it at your houses.
You can throw away my points 3 and 4, it will not change 1 and 2.

You wrote:” the followers of Moses made each of their homes a direction to pray in, praying either towards their own homes whilst inside and out, or towards the homes of others, in haphazard, nonsensical acts of physical prostration, or 2. The understanding of the Quran has to be other than a direction to turn to in prayer for the meaning of qibla.”

Since you could not understand the purpose of Salat, it will remain nonsensical to you. You are bringing outside notions to contaminate Quranic message. When every house is a Qibla, then what is the need to pray in the direction of other houses? Further, each household is doing it individually within that house. Outside the houses was perhaps not an option, it may bring more persecution from Pharaoh.

Qibla definition: The word “Qibla” is from root letters qāf bā lām and occurs 7 times in Quran as a noun qib'lat. The meanings of this word relevant to our discussion are: facing a particular direction; Its typical use is facing towards a place during Namaz, the place to be kept in front. From here Allama Parwez in Lughat-ul-Quran concludes that Qibla is a distinctive symbol of Deen which is Kaaba, and its evident and manifest form is gatherings of Salat facing Kaaba. [pages 1324-25].

It is obvious when doing Salat, Qibla is a direction towards which one faces when praying.

Best Regards,
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 9:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 8:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 9:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm