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Re: Salat and Qibla
By:jawaid ahmed,uk
Date: Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (Dawood, USA)

Dawood: Thus, when Moses came to Pharaoh in Egypt, he brought clear signs, among them was a clear sign, termed his staff. No book or part of the book, no law yet, no Taurah either. Same is depicted in 10:75. God’s signs are termed Haq/truth in 10:76.

So sad. Read the following and it says Moses was a MESSENGER of Allah. The definition of a Messenger is one who has a MESSAGE. This message could only come from Allah. This means he had REVELATION from Allah to pass on as a message to pharaoh.

A MESSAGE was not a staff turning into a snake, a MESSAGE is the TRUTH as revealed by Allah to him. There are other verses that say look to the natural order of the universe for clear signs there is only One God, and other verses that deny any deviation from the natural order of God, so there are no miracles as 'signs' for us to get bewildered by, not then not now but some still believe that a dead, wooden staff can turn into a living snake! You are deceived by the magic of falsehood so please read the following and the meaning of sehr, not that magic could be done, but the deception by those who believed in it.

7:103 [Here is another historical account. Moses was the next generation to Sho’aib, after the Midyans had risen and declined in the previous millennium] We sent Moses to Pharaoh and his chiefs with Our revelations and they degraded them. Now see the consequence for the corrupters.
7:104 Moses said, "O Pharaoh! I am a Messenger from the Lord of the Worlds. (7:104:5)rasūluna Messenger
7:105 It is incumbent upon me that I say about God nothing but the truth. I come to you with clear evidence of the truth from your Lord. So let the Children of Israel go with me.
7:106 Pharaoh said, “If you have come with clear evidence, produce it if you are of the truthful.”
7:107 Moses presented his argument that he held fast, with vibrant confidence and logic.
7:108 The strength of his conviction shone bright to those present. [20:17-21]
7:109 The chiefs of Pharaoh's nation said, "This is some knowing wizard!
7:110 It appears to us that Moses, after gaining some following, plans to throw you out of your land.” Said Pharaoh, “Now, what do you advise?”
7:111 (After consulting) they said, "Put him and his brother off for a while and send to the cities men to summon.
7:112 To bring all debaters to your court.” [Saahir from Sihr = Magician, liar, stunningly eloquent, smart poet, deceitful, trickster, cheater, defrauder, dodger, hoaxer, swindler]
7:113 The debaters came to Pharaoh. They said, “Will there be reward for us if we are victors?”
7:114 He answered, “Yes, and you will be among those who are close to me.”
7:115 The debaters said, “O Moses! Either you begin or let us be the first to present our case.”
7:116 Moses asked them to begin. When they began they cast a spell on the people’s eyes, and struck them with awe, and stunned the assembly with their spellbinding eloquence.
7:117 So, We inspired Moses, “Respond with conviction. And then see how it swallows their deceptive rhetoric.” [‘Asaa = Staff = Cane = Strength = Conviction = Authority = Power = Strong logic = Convincing argument]
7:118 The truth prevailed and their arguments were manifestly proven false.
7:119 Thus, they were defeated right there and humiliated.
7:120 The debaters fell down prostrate.
7:121 They were convinced and said, "We believe in the Lord of the Worlds.
7:122 The Lord of Moses and Aaron.”

10:79 Pharaoh said, "Bring all eloquent debaters to me."
10:80 And when they came, Moses said to them, “Begin with your presentation."
10:81 When they finished with their arguments, Moses said, “Your reasoning is totally flawed. God proves it false through His laws. God will annihilate the political and social systems that promote corruption, disorder and bloody feuds.
10:82 God will always vindicate the truth by His laws, even though the guilty may hate it. [Societies will flourish only when they embrace the Permanent Value System. The guilty that are used to thriving on the toil of others, will hate equity]
10:83 Only a few of the Egyptians, some youngsters, could proclaim belief in Moses because of the fear of Pharaoh and his chiefs. Pharaoh was a most arrogant tyrant on earth. He used to exceed the limits.
10:84 Moses said, “O My people! If you do believe in God, then place your trust in Him – if you have truly surrendered to Him.
10:85 They responded, "In God we have put our trust. Our Lord! Make us not a temptation for the oppressors.”
10:86 “Save us by Your grace from people who oppose the truth.”
10:87 We revealed to Moses and his brother, “Tell your people: Maintain your homes in Egypt, and turn them into centers of devotion and training. Establish the commandments in your lives and give good news to the believers.”

S-H-R س ح ر

Muheet says “اَلسِّحْرُ” (as-sehr) basically means to turn, and figuratively it means to represent falsehood as truth.

Tahzeeb says it means to turn something away from the truth to untruth.
Taj-ul-Uroos says it means such things whose origin is such that it becomes difficult to separate fact from fiction. It is used for a deception of a sort that one cannot find out how the deception has been made. Later this word started meaning commony used techniques of cheating and deception {Ibn Qatebah}.

“سَحَرَہ” (saharah) and “سَحَّرہٗ” (sah-harah): he was deceived.
“اِنَّمَا اَنْتَ مِنَ الْمُسَحَّرِیْنَ” (nama unta minal musah hareen): you all are among those who have been deceived, and are deceived time and again (26:153-158).
“عَنْزٌ مَسْحُوْرَۃٌ” (unzun mashurah) means a goat which has big breasts but it produces little milk.
“اَلْمَسْحُوْرُ” (almas-huur) means someone whose mind has gone mad or someone who lost his mind {T, M}.

The opponents used to call the messenger (pbuh) as “رَجُلاً مَسْحُوْراًن” (rajulan mas huura), that is, one who has been deceived, or one who is under a spell, or one whose intellect has been impaired (17:47). It also means the same as “سَاحِرٌ” (saahir), or one who deceives, as in 17:101.

Surah Al-Mominoon says:
23:89 Ask them why have you been deceived?

قُلْ قَاَنّٰی تُسْحَرُوْنَ

Aside from deception, this word also means lies. The Quran says:
11:7 If you tell them that you will be raised after you are dead then the deniers will say that this is a lie. وَلَئِنْ قُلْتَ اِنَّکُمْ مَبْعُوْثُوْنَ مِنْ بَعْدِ الْمَوْتِ لَیَقُوْلَنَّ الَّذِیْنَ کَفَرُوْ اِنْ هٰذَا اِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُبِیْنٌ

“اَلسَّحِرُ” (as-sahar) means the upper part of the chest, (lung, heart etc.). It means the corner of everything.

“سَحَرٌ” (sahar) is the last part of the night, or just before dawn.

Raghib says that sahar means dawn, when the darkness of the night is changing into the light of day (54:34). The plural is “اَسْحَارٌ” (ashaar) as in 51:18 {T}.

Ibn Qateebah says that sahar means the beginning of a day, the time for commencing business.

History tells us that in the pas there has been a time which has been called the magical age. Western researchers have provided quite a bit of information about this era. Sehr or magic meant that people through various means tried to make various forces in the universe follow their orders or desires. This is what is known as sorcery as well. First came the era in which man pleaded to the forces in the universe, then came the era when he thought of forcing these forces to do what he wanted. Thus sorcerers had a very high stature in society, but if given careful thought, it will be seen that man’s development from the era of worship to the era of magic was a first and childish attempt to develop rational thinking, ‘Rational thought’ means to find the cause of everything, to find out the cause and effect of everything. In the era of worship man thought, for instance, that a man suffers from fever because some deity was displeased with him. To get rid of this fever one needed to please that deity somehow. There was no cause and effect inquiry into the matter. From this man evolved to the era of magic, in others words, he thought if such mantra is read so many times, and in a certain way, then the aim will be achieved. That is, in his mind a faint linkage with deed and effect had begun to make a beginning. Allah’s deen told him that everything in the universe is created by Allah. Every deed has a designated effect and this happens according to certain law. If man finds out about the laws then he can produce the effect any time he wants. This is the foundation on which our entire scientific structure rests, and the axis round which human life and his future revolves. Magic is false illusion only, because it does not have any concept of something happening due to a certain law, but because of reciting some mantras and to do some odd things.

The Quran invited mankind to rationally analyse everything in their world by using their intellect and reasoning. In the Quran, in the story about Moosa, there is mention of the sorcerers of the Pharaoh’s nation and their sorcery. Moosa had dealt with them. If sehr means magic then at these places it will be taken to mean magicians, but if it means ‘the worship of falsehood, then the figurative meanings of those verses will be taken accordingly.

If sehr is taken to mean magic, then one thing comes to fore. The Quran has said that these sorcerers deceived people’s eyes (7:116), that is, the ropes they had thrown on the ground did not actually start to move. The sorcerers with sleight of hand or psychologically made the people think that they had moved. That is, this sort of magic only affects the power of thought and those things do not actually turn into something different. The magician affects the power of thinking of the people who are watching. Today’s psychological advancement has proven that it can be done and is called illusion. That means that nothing more than our thoughts make this magic real. The point to note here is that the Quran exposed the existence of these types of tricks from the past which took place many centuries ago. Also see heading (Kh-Y-L).

The entire religion of the Jews seemed to have got infested and comprises of such sorcery and their places of worship were the centres of such sorcery. They used to attribute these things to Suleman (Solomon). Ism azam and nuqooshi sulemaani (the great name and the seal of Solomon) were their special gimmicks for creating such magic. The Quran refuted all this and said that the messengers of God have nothing to do with these deceptions and superstitions (2:102).

This is what the Quran said but the Muslims who are supposed to follow the Quran gradually got influenced by superstitions one after another, and by naming it spiritualism gave falsehood the appearance of the truth. They only deceived themselves.

The Messenger (pbuh)was accused to be:
17:47
25:8 he is under a spell رَجُلًا مَّسْحُورًا

The Quran has denied this in 25:9. The personality of a messenger is so strong and developed through the useof intellect and reasoning within the values of the revelation that no sorcerer’s psychological strength can influence it. The messenger could never have come under any spell, as it is impossible. In Moosa’s story it has only been said that he thought that the ropes were moving, but this is a different thing, while to be under someone’s spell and talk nonsense is quite different.. Messengers can never be under a spell. If in this tale about Moosa, sehr is taken to mean worship of false ideologies, then the meaning becomes clearer.

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 9:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 8:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 9:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm