Our Beacon Forum

Re: Salat and Qibla
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (jawaid ahmed,uk)

You wrote: “Yes, you are not understanding or being childish in your response, you know fully well when the Quran says make your homes a Qibla it is referring to the followers of Moses doing this, not the four walls”

“doing this”? Doing What? Baking pizza? Are you childish or me?

Earlier you wrote: “Moses had revelation/truth from Allah and HIS FOLLOWERS made their homes a Qibla, a place that everyone could turn to for this truth.”

O my brother, how long one could go on with your nonsense? Everyone could turn to their houses to do what? Were their houses a repository for revelations brough by Moses? Revelations are with Moses, and you are suggesting everyone turn to their houses to get the truth/revelations? You are indeed befogged.

You wrote: “The Taurat was the complete Revelation given to Moses and he had part of this in Egypt as well as more after Egypt,”

Which verse tells you that Moses was given part of Taurah here and part there? As usual you are running with your thoughts disregarding the Book. Lets look at some relevant verses, though this may direct us in a different direction.

[7:103-107]: Then We sent after them Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh and his establishment, but they were unjust toward them. So see how was the end of the corrupters. And Moses said, "O Pharaoh, I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds. [Who is] obligated not to say about Allah except the truth. I have come to you with A CLEAR SIGN (bibayyinatin) from your Lord, so send with me the Children of Israel." [Pharaoh] said, "If you have come with A SIGN, then bring it forth, if you should be of the truthful." So Moses threw his staff (aṣāhu), and suddenly it was a serpent, manifest.

Thus, when Moses came to Pharaoh in Egypt, he brought clear signs, among them was a clear sign, termed his staff. No book or part of the book, no law yet, no Taurah either. Same is depicted in 10:75. God’s signs are termed Haq/truth in 10:76.

Your next question should be when and where he get Taurat then? Now go to 7:142 onwards.

[7:142-145]: And We made an appointment with Moses for thirty nights and perfected them by [the addition of] ten; so the term of his Lord was completed as forty nights. ….. [Allah] said, "O Moses, I have chosen you over the people with MY MESSAGES and MY WORDS [to you]. So take what I HAVE GIVEN YOU and be among the grateful."And We wrote for him on the TABLETS of all things - instruction and explanation for all things, [saying], "Take them with determination and order your people to take the best of it. I will show you the home of the defiantly disobedient."

[2:51-53]: And [recall] when We made an appointment with Moses for forty nights. Then you took [for worship] the calf after him, while you were wrongdoers…… And [recall] when We gave Moses the Scripture and criterion that perhaps you would be guided.

Thus, it is obvious Moses was given the book after 40 nights which occurred when Moses was out of Egypt. And your assertion part here, part there is untenable.

You wrote: “I am going to ask one question of you so we can narrow down what you mean. Moses asked his followers to make their homes ‘Qibla’. Do you believe that each home OF THE FOLLOWERS OF MOSES was a direction that each of them were asked to bow down to during a physical, ritual prayer? Yes or No and please explain why.”

This was explained when I started this thread. It is obvious you did not read it. Here it is for you once more:

Please note the first occurrence of both Salat and Qibla during the time of prophet Moses. Reviewing 10:75 onward, one finds that many people during Moses’ time did not believe in him fearing Firaun’s persecution, except some offspring/youth among his people [10:83]. Moses goes on to advise his followers to rely on Allah if you believe and are Muslims [10:84], they responding with affirmation and making supplication to Lord that (i) they may not be the object of trial for the wrongdoers and (ii) God may save them through His mercy [10:86-87]. Please note the apprehensions and anxiety felt by these individuals, and the pulpable atmosphere they were in. It is thus obvious that this time was of severe hardship and persecution for Moses, his brother, and their followers. Then [10:87]:

[10:87]: And We inspired to Moses and his brother, "Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses Qiblah and establish Salat and give good tidings to the believers."

1. Through 10:87, God is asking Moses and his brother to do this: (i) settle your followers in houses (make them calm, collected, composed, and restful; no confrontation with Firaun and his people, etc.), (ii) ask them to make their houses Qibla and establish salat therein, and (iii) reassure them glad tidings from God if they remain believers.

2. Before Moses asks them to do Salat, Qibla is mentioned. People at the time of Moses knew (i) what is “Qibla” and that (ii) there is a relationship between the Qibla and Salat. Therefore, Qibla (the physical direction) and Salat are essential for each other.

3. It could be that their houses were to become places of salat without really bothering about a particular direction to avoid any confusion and arguments between them. Useless arguments divide people and dilute their strengths (as you and me are doing here?)

4. It could also be that no particular Qibla was yet established for this nation as no directions were yet given to Moses about the final form of the Deen and its central symbol towards which they may face eventually. Please note at this stage the only demand on Firaun is “Let Children of Israel go with me.”

5. One may also note that there is only one command given to the people of Moses, and that is: after belief, RELY ON GOD. Thus, Salat was the main mechanism through which this reliance on God was to be cemented. Salat was the mechanism through which they prayed to God, sought His help, and remained steadfast against the increasing persecution they were subjected to. Please compare this with our beloved prophet and Muslims with him in 2:153.

Best Regards
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm