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Re: Salat and Qibla
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (jawaid ahmed,uk)

Jawaid bhai, understanding depends on both the writer, his/her writings, and the reader and his/her abilities to understand. Although I don’t think I am not understanding you, yet it is a possibility. Did you look at your end?

you wrote: “Moses had revelation/truth from Allah and HIS FOLLOWERS made their homes a Qibla, a place that everyone could turn to for this truth.”

Moses had revelations/truth. Should his followers turn to Moses to get the truth or to THEIR HOUSES to get the truth? How could HOUSES, BUILDINGS, provide them the truth? Was the truth brought by Moses written on the WALLS OF THEIR HOUSES? Am I not understanding you as you claim?

You wrote: “To say that each home at the time of Moses was a direction to ‘pray’ in makes no senses, is utter nonsense.”

Is praying in any direction within the four walls of their houses utter nonsense or turning to the walls of their houses for the truth? Brother, you are in a state of befogged mind.

You wrote: “The Revelation was the Taurat given to Moses which no longer exists but now we have the Quran as the final and everlasting Guidance form Allah.”

Taurat was not given to Moses until they left Egypt. You are mixing up things and going with your hubris as usual. No further comments are needed.

You wrote: “The signs were the Revelation and the revolution it would bring about by improving the lot of all the people, controlling the pharaohs, the rich and religious nuts. ….TASREEF- ALLAH does not change the condition of a people until they change themselves. This means ‘praying’ to Allah for help will not work. ….”

Again, what was that revelation that would improve the lot of all people? Give me at least one verse to prove your untenable assertion?

TASREEF---- How do you jump from “ALLAH does not change the condition of a people until they change themselves” to “This means ‘praying’ to Allah for help will not work.”? Fallacies abound. How does praying to Allah, asking for His help, seeking His guidance, remembering Him and His commands stop anyone not to work to change themselves?

You wrote: “Teaching people right from wrong from an early age so that they grow up good, decent people needs Salat, following the commands of Allah in everything we do by dhikr, by remembering them in whatever we do. Turn this into a meaningless ritual of physical prostration leads to the deaf, dumb and blind, follow the religious priest, sheep like behaviour we see today in all religions. What and who benefits from this act? No human being is helped, no humanitarian act is performed, no-one benefits.”

You are again mixing the Quranic Salat with what most people do now a days. First, decouple yourself what people are doing in any religion. Second, you need to learn the Salat and its purpose given in the Book. Third, practice it keeping its purpose infront. You will then see the results.

You wrote: “The Jews asked why the Messenger was not turning towards their Qibla.”

Really? Give me the verse number in which this is stated? This is your brainchild. Period.

You wrote: “In other words, you accept that the Medina mosque had a Qibla pointing towards Jerusalem.”

I simply stated this: “..I have not been to Mecca or Medina, so don't know this.” How does this statement equal to “you accept ….”?

You wrote: “Can you prove that the Messenger had revelation telling him to do this?”

Yes, [2:144]: The foolish among the people will say, "What has turned them away from their qiblah, they were on?" Say, "To Allah belongs the east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a straight path."

Isn’t it clear that (i) Muslims were on a Qibla, (ii) they switched this qibla, (iii) fools saw it and thus commented and wondered. Are God’s verses no proof for you?

Can you prove from Quran that messenger was asked to face or follow a “qibla” while in Mecca for about 13 years? Or was he Qibla-less for 13 years?

You wrote: “There is a forgery in the two Qiblas as one is wrong, an innovation when we look into the Quran and find no proof for the Messenger to do so, or are we going to bring miraj fairy tale as ‘proof’?”

Are my analysis in anyway based on this so called forgery? I did not even bring this in my discussion with you? Did I?

You wrote: “Why does a niche in the wall give us proof of salat?”

Where did I say “Niche in the wall is a proof of salat?” Why you being irrelevant?

You wrote: “There are early mosques which have qiblas facing in directions other than Mecca, Medina or Jerusalem. What does this prove? The Qibla was not a direction to ‘pray’ in but a focal point of the mosque for the community leader to stand/sit at to address his people. It later become a meaningless ritual direction of praying towards Mecca.”

Did I base any of my analysis on “early mosques” theory as you outlined here?

Further, now historical evidence of “early mosques” is acceptable to you. Just a few lines above, you termed it “forgery” when a similar and better historical evidence was brought to your attention, despite the fact prophet lived in Medina for at least 10 years as compared to other “early mosques” where he never set his foot. What is the criterion you used to choose one and reject the other? And Why?

You wrote: “Medina/Mecca verses are nonsensical and you mentioned them again!”

Brother, your mind is so befogged that you cannot think straight. Prophet lived about 13 and 10 years in Mecca and Medina, respectively. Quran was gradually revealed to him over these 23 years. There were at least 2-3 dozen scribes writing the verses of the Quran. If they could write these verses you and me depend upon today, don’t you think they also knew where (Mecca or Medina) these verses were revealed? Is it so difficult to fathom?

Additionally, you yourself stated “prophet had set up a society in Medina.” Isn’t it? If you are referring this in response to verses 2:142-150, isn’t it logical to conclude that these verses were revealed in Medina? Now you are questioning your own statements. That is why I say, somersault here, another one there, and keep going oblivious of your current and future trajectory.

Best Regards
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 9:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 8:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 27 June 2017, 9:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm