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Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
By:jawaid ahmed,uk
Date: Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:29 pm
In Response To: Siyyam & not Fastening (Engr Awais Durrani Islamabad)

Aidads interpretion in brackets followed by my comments:

Fasting is the fourth of the Five Pillars of Islam. The Arabic word siyaam (root : sawm) which is found in the Quran has been twisted by the conspirators to mean fasting – an abstaining from food and drink during the daylight hours in the “month of Ramadhan”. The following is adapted from Aidid Safar the author of the book “Mental Bondage”. Siyyam does not mean fasting by abstaining from food and drink at all. Here are the verses from the Quran to prove this:
19:25-26 And shake towards you the palm tree, it will drop ripe fruits. So eat and drink (wa kuli wa ashrabee) and be happy and when you see anyone, then say, "I have pledged to the Merciful a siyyaam; therefore I shall not talk to anyone today.
This is the Quranic narrative of Mary and baby Jesus. Here Mary is described as performing the siyyam. Yet she was not abstaining from food and drink. On the contrary she was told to shake a date palm and eat its fruits. She was also told to ‘eat and drink’ (wa kuli wa ashrabee). This was not abstaining from food at all. Mary was eating and drinking during her siyyam. The siyyam enjoined upon Mary was NOT to talk to anyone. From here we understand that the word siyyam means to control or restrain oneself from doing something. To control oneself]

Saum means abstaining so Mary abstained from arguing with them over Jesus until Jesus would grow up and prove she had done the right thing by getting married and having children. She had been dedicated to the temple and should have stayed there but left, that is what the Jews were angry about.

[2:183 O you trusted people, self control (siyyaam) is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you are winners.
2:184 A few days for reckoning, for those who are ill or travelling the reckoning shall be on other days. And for those who find difficulty in doing it, substitute with the feeding of a poor person. Hence, whoever works goodness, so it would do him good, and that you control yourself is better if you know. ]

The above two verses say that you should have self control but if you cannot because you are ill or travelling or find it difficult to have self control, then you can feed a needy person and carry on being angry etc.!

[2:185] When the Koran is sent down, it becomes manifestly intense (shahru ramadan), a guidance for the people and explanations from the guidance and the criterion. Therefore whoever amongst you experiences these manifestations (shahida minkum shahra) you shall control yourself (fal-ya-sumhoo). And those who are ill or travelling they shall reckon from other days (faiddatun min ayyamin ukhra). Allah wishes convenience for you, and He does not impose hardship upon you; and so that you shall fulfil your own reckoning, and you shall glorify Allah for guiding you, so that you are appreciative.]

The Quran is already sent down so do I wait for it to get sent down again intensely before pleading illness so that I can carry on being angry and not having self control?

[2:186 And when My servants ask you about Me, I am always near, I respond to the call of any caller who calls on Me. Therefore, they shall respond to Me, and be faithful to Me, that they may be guided.
2:187 You are permitted during the nights when you restrain yourselves (siyyaam) to indulge your women. They are your confidantes, and you are their confidants. Allah knows that you have betrayed yourselves, and therefore He redeemed you and pardoned you. Henceforth, mix with them, and seek you of what Allah has decreed for you, and eat and drink (wa kuluu wa ashraboo) until you can understand this as clearly as the white thread from the black thread at dawn. Restrain yourselves till the night. And you shall not mix with them whilst involved in your places of submission. These are the limits of Allah; therefore you shall not breach them. Allah thus clarifies His revelations for the people, that they become observant.

There is no fasting by not eating food and not drinking from dawn to dusk anywhere in all these verses. ]

Whilst I am having self control I may indulge my women folk until I understand the Quran and then do not mix with women in the mosque, they are banned so the Mullas are right all along on this.

[There is no command at all that says DO NOT EAT AND DO NOT DRINK anywhere in these verses. Instead the positive command ‘eat and drink’ (wa kuluu wa ashraboo) appears here again. ‘Wa kuluu wa ashraboo’ seems to be a command to appreciate life and to be happy. Similar to the saying ‘eat, drink and be happy’. In the Koran, a negative command or a prohibition usually begins clearly with "You shall not", "You shall stop...", "You shall refrain from..." or ‘You shall not come near’. In this case there are no clearly discernible commands in the verses which say DO NOT EAT AND DO NOT DRINK. ]

It says “eat and drink UNTIL” so a prohibition comes after the ‘UNTIL’. This means you do not need a DO NOT EAT AND DO NOT DRINK verse to stop you eating and drinking, the until does the negating.

[Please note that in 2:187 the words “thumma atimmoo al siyyaama ilal layli "...then fulfil your self control towards the night (ilal laili)..." This means the "siyyaam" is to be performed at night as well. The words day or daytime are not even mentioned anywhere here. This means that if the mullahs insist on fasting by not eating and not drinking then they must “fast” right into the night without stop. But the mullahs fasting ends in the evening at sunset. This too does not tally with verse. The current mullah fasting for one whole month is also inconsistent with the mullahs own understanding of "ayyaaman ma'duudatin..." (2:184) as 'a few specific days'. The mullahs insisting that "syahru ramadhaan" is the month of Ramadan of the Hijrah calendar will pose a further reconciliation problem with "ayyaaman ma'duudatin". Because it will then mean "fasting for a few specific days in Ramadan”. How does ‘a few specific days’ (ayyaaman mawduudatin) translate into a full month of fasting? Fasting was a pagan Arab tradition that predates Islam. Here is some background material written by a Bangladeshi writer about the pagan or jahiliyah Arabs and their fasting rituals: Ramadan was a non-Muslim pagan Arab festival The difference between pre-Islamic Ramadan and Islamic Ramadan is, pre-Islamic Ramadan was practiced by a Pagan tribe in Arabia, and Islamic Ramadan is practiced by Muslims all over the world. During Ramadan, Pagan Arabs used to abstain from food, water, sexual contact etc. Muslims practice the same Pagan Ramadan rituals.]

The month of Ramadan is the ‘specified days’, do saum during the month of Ramadan.

[It is a well-known fact that Islam adapted the Pagan practice of fasting. There is a Hadith in Sahih Bukhari that mentions the ritual. Bukhari 5:58:172 – Narrated Aisha: ‘Ashura was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.’ So the fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram ) originated from pre-islamic practice .Similar is the crescent moon ;the symbol of moon god .This fastening or Roza has been stolen from the Bible & Torah .]

The fasting on Ashura is proved by this hadith to be pre-Islamic, not the fasting of the month of Ramadan.

Messages In This Thread

Siyyam & not Fastening
Engr Awais Durrani Islamabad -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 5:13 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:29 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Engr Awais Durrani Islamabad -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 5:51 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Kafil Tunsill -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 2:37 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
shad -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 1:35 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Mubashir, Canada -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 2:53 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Mubashir, Canada -- Sunday, 11 June 2017, 10:32 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 3:42 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Engr Awais Durrani Islamabad -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 7:17 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:31 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
shad -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 11:59 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 3:27 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Mubashir, Canada -- Sunday, 11 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 10:48 am
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 3:29 pm
Re: Siyyam & not Fastening
Mubashir, Canada -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 3:26 am