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Re: Salat and Qibla
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
In Response To: Re: Salat and Qibla (Yusuf, Texas)

Dear Brother, thank you for taking time trying to clear my confusions.

First, please allow me to note that translations from one language to the other are rather a tricky business, I am not suited for. Every scholar translates according to his/her understanding and sometimes it is possible that certain originality and intended meanings are lost in such efforts. You will agree with me that no two narratives are the same and no two readers reading the same narrative arrive at the same conclusion. It is entirely possible that I may have missed something or misunderstood when reading different translations and renditions of the Quran. At the end of the day, I have to make sense of my readings for myself. If math does not add up, I dig deep to find the discrepancy. To this end, I have no choice but to go back to the book, the original words and phrases used in it, the way these are used and placed next to each other in the same verse, other verses, so on and so forth, utilizing every trick of the tool I know to do the math right.

You wrote: “Additionally, you will also be in compliance with the Forum policy in using only QXP for quoting references from the Quran.”

Please see my reasons above to use non-QXP very basic word-to-word meanings. I understand, I don’t have an inherent right to post on this forum, rather it is a privilege graciously extended to me by Dr. Sahib despite some of my understandings. You can help me to do the math right as I explain below.

You wrote: “I do not find Allama Parwez CONCLUDING in facing Kaaba in Namaz in his explanation in Lughat-ul-Quran, although it does mention about facing the Kaaba for prayers.”

What I wrote came from Allama’s Urdu edition of Lughat-ul-Quran, 4th Ed, 1998, p. 1324 and 1325, second paragraph, which reads as under:

“Alqiblatan – the original meanings of this word are Juhat or Simat (direction). But in Urfe-Aam (typical day-to-day usage) it is the place towards which one faces during Namaz… “

Further, on page 1325, second paragraph, line 7 reads: “Its evident/manifested (mehsoos) form is gatherings of salat facing Ka’ba.”

I hope this addresses your concerns with reference quotes from Lughat.

Further, you wrote: “Empty rituals and physical actions have no place in Islam.”

Don’t you think Namaz/Salat is the physical action as Allama Parwez mentioned above? Why my dear brother deny clearly mentioned things in Quran? You are tossing Quran aside as and when suits you?

In your post, you have quite a few things thrown in there. These observations of yours beg lots of questions and clarifications, dear brother. For the sake of time, I will take up these one by one. I am constrained to use very basic word-for-word translation since without this my confusion cannot be explained. I will take verse 2:142 to begin with.

[2:142]: The foolish (of little understanding) among the people will say, "What has turned THEM away from their qiblah, they were upon?" Say, "To Allah belongs the east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a straight path."

The above has two parts. In part (i), God is predicting that some people of little understanding will say “What has turned THEM away from their qiblah, they were upon?" Please answer the following questions related to this and quote some verses in support of your answer.

1. Who are the people mentioned “THEM” in the quoted clause (i)? Are these (a) Jews, (b) Christians, (c) Muslims, (d) Other misc. non-believers?

2. Please explain your choice above. Why did you choose the group (a or b or c or d) you chose? In other words, what led you to this choice?

3. Name the Qibla as a symbol of Deen referred to in (i) above?

4. Were the people referred “THEM” in 2:142 doing something physical that people could see with respect to the Qibla or being on the Qibla? OR

5. They (THEM) were looking up to the Qibla as a symbol of their Deen?

6. Did God inform us in the Quran when/where His prediction of “turned THEM away from their Qibla” was realized?

I think these are enough to continue, I will bring some more after you have provided me answers to these questions.

You wrote: “It was Bukhari who ushered the Muslim mindset, to this day, that Muslims faced Jerusalem in 2:142 before they changed their focus to Kaaba. It was not the Prophet (S) but Jews who faced Jerusalem.”

Dear brother, Bukhari was born at the end of 2nd century AH, he collected and wrote whatever somewhere during the first half of 3rd century AH. His work was most likely not available in book form until at least a century later. You want me to believe that Bukhari was so influential that Muslims from East to West and North to South en masse subverted Quranic text according to Bukhari’s collection? I am speechless at such thoughts and impossible inferences.

Best Regards,
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Wednesday, 24 May 2017, 10:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:27 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 1:14 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 2:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:25 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Mohammad IL -- Friday, 26 May 2017, 3:08 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 11:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:23 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:23 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 8:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 30 May 2017, 7:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 4 June 2017, 11:55 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 9:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:35 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 10:21 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:56 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 7:56 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:04 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:28 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Yusuf, Texas -- Sunday, 18 June 2017, 7:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 19 June 2017, 6:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 20 June 2017, 8:39 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
m ahmed -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 9:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 8:54 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 22 June 2017, 8:43 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 7:59 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 23 June 2017, 11:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 24 June 2017, 8:48 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 26 June 2017, 9:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla / Post deleted
Fadil / Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 27 May 2017, 4:31 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
SHabib, Canada -- Sunday, 28 May 2017, 5:12 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 3:46 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 1 June 2017, 7:38 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:07 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 2 June 2017, 9:51 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 3 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 5 June 2017, 11:41 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 8:15 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:48 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:32 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:22 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 8:06 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:26 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:05 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:43 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 11:38 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:07 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 9:02 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 8:46 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 8:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:42 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 9 June 2017, 11:34 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 10 June 2017, 4:10 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 4:50 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:54 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 6:11 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 8:30 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:32 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Wednesday, 7 June 2017, 11:09 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 11:29 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Imraan, England -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 9:11 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 8 June 2017, 7:29 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 12 June 2017, 5:16 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 13 June 2017, 8:34 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 8:08 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 9:40 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 15 June 2017, 7:47 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 8:22 am
Re: Salat and Qibla
Dawood, USA -- Friday, 16 June 2017, 9:17 pm
Re: Salat and Qibla
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 17 June 2017, 3:35 pm