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Re: prostration of nature to Allah
By:Dawood, USA
Date: Monday, 22 May 2017, 6:06 pm
In Response To: prostration of nature to Allah (jawaid ahmed,uk)

Before I begin, I want to reiterate, it is not my desire to belittle anyone’s work. Rather, I am focused what Quran conveys to me on such issues.

Having said that, with due respect, there you again, brother Jawaid. Taking not so relevant or obliquely relevant verses, allegorical verses in all likelihood, hijacking a word from these, providing your subjective interpretation of that word, and then taking a broad brush to paint what these words and phrases should mean for Man. Dear brother, your modus operandi is transparent. Either, you don’t know what is in the Quran about such words and terminologies or you are purposefully leading yourself away from the true message. You don’t want to be in either of these situations.

On salat, you took “birds in flight” and the word “salat” and from there you concluded completely subjectively what “salat” should mean for man, ignoring how prophets taught Man clearly and unambiguously to do his Salat. God says in 17:44, “ … but you do not understand their [way of] exalting (Tasbihahum)…” This is the same “Tasbih” and “Tusabih” as in 24:41. God says “you don’t understand….” , you say, Jawaid does? Should I believe in God’s verses or you? The choice is obvious for those who believe in God’s words.

Now you are doing the same thing with the word “Sujood” in Quran. This is a classic case of 3:7:

[3:7]: “It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses precise (Ayaatun Muhkamaatun) - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific (mutashābihātun – allegorical). As for those in whose hearts is deviation, they will follow that of it which is unspecific (tashābaha), seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.”

Please pay attention to the word “Ayaatun Muhkamaatun – verses containing precise and established commandments and orders.” Is it conceivable that God orders us, humans to follow some clear commands but then leave those commands to be hanging and vague, to be subjectively interpreted, and played around as and when one desires? No, it is neither conceivable nor God left it to likes of brother Jawaid to define His verses. The purpose of various prophets was to not only convey the verses but also to act upon these verses, thereby removing any ambiguity if someone thought to be an ambiguity to begin with.

With reference to the word “Sujood”, God has clearly and unambiguously informed us as to what is the “sujood” of man as far back as Moses, if not earlier. I will only quote 2-3 verses, among others, for those who can think for themselves.

[27:23-25]: Indeed, I found [there] a woman ruling them, and she has been given of all things, and she has a great throne. I found her and her people prostrating [ yasjudūna] to the sun instead of Allah , and Satan has made their deeds pleasing to them and averted them from [His] way, so they are not guided, That they do not prostrate [yasjudū] to Allah , who brings forth what is hidden within the heavens and the earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare.”

Please pay attention to the word “people” and the word “Sujood” together in 27:24. Is there any ambiguity how they were doing Sujood to the Sun? There is no need to do somersaults subjectively.

1. Are people in 27:24: (a) doing general submission to commands of sun (???) as brother Jawaid wants us to believe or (b) prostrating as prostration is done and understood? Choose (a) or (b).

2. The same word “sujood” is repeated in [27:25] in which it is being conveyed to us humans that this prostration by these people should have been to God, the One worthy of all such prostration. Is “Sujood” in 27:25 referring to (a) or (b) above?

Further, [41:37]: “And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate [tasjudū] to the sun or to the moon, but prostate [wa-us'judū] to Allah , who created them, if it should be Him that you worship.”

The above is God’s command “don’t prostrate to Sun…” Did anyone see people doing “general obedience and submission to sun and moon in response to their commands??” The same Sujood=prostration is to Allah in the second part and that this is termed one form of worship [Ibadah].

Now a few words from Allama Parwez’s Lughat, pp. 844-851, Urdu Ed.

“Sajd has various forms, one must see if it is physical (prostration) or symbolic (obedience/submission) based on context….. In 4:102, the phrase “ fa-idhā sajadū = when they have prostrated” is clearly meant to do “sajda” which is done in Namaz in which Man in truth physically prostrate to God with his head, and that this form was prevalent during the time of the Prophet, his companions, and during revelation of the Quran…”

Isn’t it obvious what is “sujood” of Man? Do we need jumping here, jumping there, bringing in allegorical verses and then subjectively concluding what should be the “sujood” of Man? No, not at all. God’s words and commands are clear, precise, and established then, as well as now.

Further, as per my understanding, there is no verse in Quran in which nature is doing Ruku. This is unique to Man, and is a physical action performed in Salat. I will take it up again when I continue with my thoughts on Salat, IA.

Best Regards,
Dawood

Messages In This Thread

prostration of nature to Allah
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 17 May 2017, 2:49 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 22 May 2017, 6:06 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 2:00 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 9:44 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
JAwaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:26 am
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:40 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Yusuf, TX -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 9:25 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 8:16 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Yusuf, Texas -- Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 5:52 am
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Yusuf, Texas -- Monday, 29 May 2017, 10:44 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 31 May 2017, 8:23 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 22 May 2017, 9:43 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 1:39 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 23 May 2017, 9:52 pm
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 8:33 am
Re: prostration of nature to Allah
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 25 May 2017, 10:47 pm