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Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
By:jawaid ahmed,uk
Date: Saturday, 13 May 2017, 3:25 pm
In Response To: Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS (Dawood, USA)

I have stated that salat system comes after individual salat. Those who gain power are doing their own salat and this gives them the knowhow to establish salat in society.

Studying the Quran as an individual so that you know and follow the commands morning, middle of day and evening, that is, whenever you have an opportunity to do so, makes you mutaqee, we agree. As society, individuals come together and need to construct the system to do this as well, the two are not mutually exclusive. Salat is all encompassing so see society and individual as one.

Human beings learn what is right from wrong by reading and knowing what is right from wrong. This again answers your three questions. A society is set up where people consult each other, come to a conclusion about what has to be done and then check this is in agreement with the Quran, so everything we do that benefits us is a part of salat as it is following closely the commands of God. Councils etc must abide by Quranic injunctions and when they do this they can be described as doing salat.

Parwez. 7. One meaning of Sal'at is reverence and respect (Taj), i.e., to work for and establish a socio-economic system that proves the greatness of the Sustainer of this universe.

As regards Parwez and gatherings, I have repeatedly stated that individual human beings cannot live in isolation and need to gather together. Agreed?

He then mentions namaz which I do not agree with. My reasons:

1. The Quran does not have a ‘namaz’ ritual prayer instruction verse in the same way as the ablution verse.

2. Parwez goes through a whole list of what salat means before he gets to the namaz issue so it is important to do all of the above before any thought of what goes on in the gathering can be discussed. He states throughout his lughat that empty rituals are meaningless. Namaz is an empty ritual. You do the maths about what Parwez understood about namaz.

3. If the Messenger gathered people together, lined them up, stood them up, , then he did so according to any situation where people gather and this can be achieved today by sitting on chairs.

4. The Messenger read out verses of the Quran which were in Arabic, spoken to Arab speakers who knew what was being said. This was not a blind recitation but verses of the Quran were read out to teach people what to do, eg the ‘say’ verses. This can be done anytime, or if we accept the times of the Quran then in the morning, afternoon and evening. If need be, part of the night.

5. Did he tell them to physically bow down when they heard, understood and accepted what the Quran says? According to my knowledge physical bowing is not the meaning but accepting what has to be done etc. so I doubt he did this. If he did say this in order to get the people to humble themselves before God [remember my wife?] then this act became distorted into a meaningless ritual and if he failed to straighten us up with this act then anyone claiming that we should do this in the right light it is meant to be undertaken is deluding themselves. History will repeat itself if we do anything other than follow the Quran.

Studying the Quran to know what is said is part of salat as this concept means to put this study into practice, so we cannot limit salat to just study or gatherings. The birds do salat because their ‘study’ is programmed into them and they go about fulfilling this. They closely follow what their instincts tell them. We need to find out what to do and our salat is doing them. Again, do not limit what I have just said to a restricted meaning of salat, keep the broader picture in mind.

Messages In This Thread

24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 6 May 2017, 8:26 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
dawood, usa -- Sunday, 7 May 2017, 12:32 am
Re: 24:41 salat - English please!
AbdusSattar India -- Monday, 8 May 2017, 7:13 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 8 May 2017, 4:15 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 9 May 2017, 7:59 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 9 May 2017, 10:09 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 May 2017, 7:56 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 May 2017, 8:16 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 11 May 2017, 8:19 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 11 May 2017, 11:11 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Saturday, 13 May 2017, 3:25 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Monday, 15 May 2017, 3:34 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 16 May 2017, 8:37 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 17 May 2017, 12:31 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 17 May 2017, 1:03 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
dawood, usa -- Wednesday, 17 May 2017, 2:37 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 17 May 2017, 2:56 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
dawood, usa -- Friday, 19 May 2017, 1:32 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Friday, 19 May 2017, 1:21 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Tuesday, 9 May 2017, 11:41 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Tuesday, 9 May 2017, 10:04 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Wednesday, 10 May 2017, 3:01 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Wednesday, 10 May 2017, 8:05 pm
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
jawaid ahmed,uk -- Thursday, 11 May 2017, 9:07 am
Re: 24:41 salat and tasbih OF BIRDS
Dawood, USA -- Thursday, 11 May 2017, 11:24 pm