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Re: Namaz - No information is enough
By:Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE
Date: Sunday, 20 February 2011, 3:14 am
In Response To: Re: Namaz - No information is enough (Mubashir, Canada)

Salaam;

**(Even our Brother Dr Shabbir does not deny namaaz; Only, he says, it is a small part of Salaat the system.) by Mubashir
**(Or do you think like some (unlike Allama Perwaiz) , it has an entirely different meaning?) by Mubashir

Dear brother, I don't know why you are using others people / personalities to express your point of view. Can't you use your own reason and intellect?

Allama Perwez is like a teacher to me and so is Dr. Shabbir. I have never met Allama Perwez but I have learned a lot from his writings. Luckily I did get the opportunity to meet Dr. Shabbir on this forum and talk to him through Emails. I can proudly say that I am Dr. Shabbir's student and I have learned so much from him. You have used both the names but you never learned what they taught you. Let me tell you what I have learned from Allama perwez, Dr. Shabbir' and their writings;

1: Do not follow your ancestors because they may not be rightly guided or lacking in understanding.
2: Do not follow majority because majority is following nothing but conjecture.
3: Use your own intellect and do not depend on what others say.
4: Do not follow personalities because they may not find a way unless they themselves are guided properly.
5: Do not follow blindly and do verify everything yourself. Do not depend on others!

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمُ ٱتَّبِعُو۟ا مَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ قَالُو۟ا بَلْ نَتَّبِعُ مَآ أَلْفَيْنَا عَلَيْهِ ءَابَآءَنَآ أَوَلَوْ كَانَ ءَابَآؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ شَئًْا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ (2:170 ... When it is said to them, “Follow what Allah has revealed”, they say, “Nay! We will follow the ways of our ancestors.” “What! Even though their ancestors (and the ancient Imams) were lacking in understanding and were not rightly guided?”

وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا ٱلظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ (6:116 ... (People will confront you with what the majority is doing.) Now if you pay heed to, or get intimidated by majority of those who live on earth, they will lead you astray from Allah´s way. Most of the people follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork.

إِنَّ شَرَّ ٱلدَّوَآبِّ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ ٱلصُّمُّ ٱلْبُكْمُ ٱلَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ (8:22 ... The worst of created beings in the Sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, those who do not use their intellect. [2:18, 16:76]

قُلْ هَلْ مِن شُرَكَآئِكُم مَّن يَهْدِىٓ إِلَى ٱلْحَقِّ قُلِ ٱللَّهُ يَهْدِى لِلْحَقِّ أَفَمَن يَهْدِىٓ إِلَى ٱلْحَقِّ أَحَقُّ أَن يُتَّبَعَ أَمَّن لَّا يَهِدِّىٓ إِلَّآ أَن يُهْدَىٰ فَمَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ (10:35 ... Say, “Of your ´partners´, is there any that can lead you to the truth?” Say, “Allah leads to the truth. So, who is more worthy of being followed? The One Who shows you the way or one who finds no way unless he is guided? What is amiss with you? How do you judge?”

وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عۦِلْمٌ إِنَّ ٱلسَّمْعَ وَٱلْبَصَرَ وَٱلْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسُْٔولًا (17:36 ... And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning.

**(I choose not to persue this discussion any further as advised by my Respected Brother Dr. Shabbir. ) by Mubashir

Did you asked Dr. Shabbir's permission before starting this topic and involving brother Jawaid in it? No you didn't but now you are using Dr. Shabbir's name as an excuse to leave this discussion. Why don't you come up with proper reasons and references to justify your claims instead of leaving something which you started.

**(Although I did not intend to further discuss this issue can't help asking about ablution of wudh. Why the Qur'an wants us to do it before Salat the ritual?) by Mubashir

Again you have not used your own intellect to investigate what this verse means, rather you are following other people's interpretation. You believe that ٱلصَّلَوٰةِ is ritual because Persian imams translated it like that. You believe that فَٱغْسِلُو۟ا وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى ٱلْمَرَافِقِ وَٱمْسَحُو۟ا بِرُءُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى ٱلْكَعْبَيْنِ can only be translated as "washing of faces, forearms to the elbows, heads and feet", you believe that جُنُبًا can only be translated as " post sexual impurity", مَّرْضَىٰٓ can only be translated as "sickness" and سَفَرٍ can only be translated as "travelling" just because others have interpreted these words like that. You believe that this is ablution because your ancestors and religious Imams told you so.
Why can't you try and look for the real meaning of these words using lexicons and books of Arabic grammar?
What if these words actually mean something different?
What if this verse is about something else instead of ritual and ablution?

Messages In This Thread

Namaz - No information is enough
Mubashir, Canada -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 12:08 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Jawaid Ahmed, UK -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 8:29 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Hicham, Denmark -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 1:09 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 3:28 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Mubashir, Toronto -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 4:29 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 6:29 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Mubashir, Canada -- Thursday, 17 February 2011, 10:57 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
*Dr. Shabbir, Florida -- Friday, 18 February 2011, 2:16 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Jawaid Ahmed, UK -- Friday, 18 February 2011, 9:22 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
*Dr. Shabbir, Florida -- Friday, 18 February 2011, 1:39 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Friday, 18 February 2011, 3:20 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Mubashir, Canada -- Friday, 18 February 2011, 6:00 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Friday, 18 February 2011, 9:10 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Mubashir, Canada -- Saturday, 19 February 2011, 12:45 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Amirabbas, Iran -- Saturday, 19 February 2011, 3:39 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Sardar Fatimi -- Saturday, 19 February 2011, 6:31 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough *New*
Sardar Fatimi USA -- Sunday, 20 February 2011, 12:09 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Sunday, 20 February 2011, 3:48 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Sunday, 20 February 2011, 3:14 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Rubina - UK -- Sunday, 20 February 2011, 7:30 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Waqas Raja -- Monday, 21 February 2011, 7:12 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Ali Syed -- Tuesday, 22 February 2011, 2:27 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Jawaid Ahmed, UK -- Tuesday, 22 February 2011, 1:46 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Sardar Fatimi USA -- Thursday, 24 February 2011, 7:45 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Thursday, 24 February 2011, 11:53 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Sardar Fatimi USA -- Friday, 25 February 2011, 12:21 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Friday, 25 February 2011, 2:27 am
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Tuesday, 22 February 2011, 4:57 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Junaid Malik, Pakistan/UAE -- Wednesday, 23 February 2011, 7:08 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Ali Syed New Jersey -- Wednesday, 23 February 2011, 1:46 pm
Re: Namaz - No information is enough
Dreamz - Kenya -- Tuesday, 1 May 2012, 6:24 pm