Our Beacon Forum

Date: Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 2:35 am
In Response To: NIQAB IS CRIMINAL (UmeAimon)


When it comes to proving their point of view they will try to resort to the ways they don’t approve themselves.
People, who cannot face the truth let alone talk about it, are talking about Freedom of Speech and Religion practice!"

What ways do they resort to that they don't approve themselves? Who is "they"? And what truth is it that they cannot face?

"Brother Musa, for freedom of speech and democracy!
Does your religion approve freedom of speech brother Musa?
Does your religion approve democracy brother Musa?
Nope! not that religion of yours when you try to implement it fully.
You can only say all this while living in a system that gives you enough freedom to practice the religion you “created” for yourself."

My religion approves of freedom of speech, and I can give examples from Islam if you wish. As for democracy, that is merely a tool - a style of government. Do you know what democracy is? Because every democratic nation today practices a different form of democracy from each other; each with their own theories on how to understand it, implement it, and limit it. The debate of democracy vs. anarchy vs. socialism has been a balancing act since the time of Aristotle. As for my religion, what do you know about it? I can already tell that you have made an assumption about me which is based off of your inability to understand objectivity.

"Should then they allow child marriages too that is still practiced in many of the so called Muslim countries, or what about genital mutilation?
Should they allow Sati to be practiced there too?"

To compare a style of dress to child marriages is a logical fallacy, you cannot compare the two since children are protected under the charter. As for genital mutilation, that has never been a legitimate issue in the Islamic discourse so again it is irrelevant. With this flawed logic you might as well start mentioning honor killings and black magic since those are practiced by Muslims in the third world.

"Any thing that is against the collective good of humanity is wrong and this is exactly what Islam teaches us too.
That’s how people who have gone back to the true message have understood Islam."

How is niqab bad for the collective good? How do you measure that?

"NIQAB is criminal, regardless of which religion you belong to, as it HIDES your identity!"

Hiding your identity is not a criminal offense, either in secular law or religious law. Moreover, wearing the niqab does not prevent a police officer from identifying who you are when they approach you. Also, by your logic wearing ski masks is a criminal act but in reality, in any country, it is not. The same thing with halloween masks, I have never heard of anyone being considered a criminal for wearing a mask. That seems like a totalitarian law that you desire.

"This serves more of the illicit activities of these 2No. Islamist than any good, including, hiding if it’s their wife they are roaming around with or another one or “to be”.
Witnessed by my unfortunate self!"

Anything can be used for illicit activities. According to this you advocate limiting the use of anything that people can potentially use for illicit activities; this is actually the mentality of the wahhabis and mullahs, they forbid people from listening to music, watching tv, going to the mall, and so on, because they MIGHT engage in illicit activities.

"Yes, I say it openly that I’m against every mulla/maulvi as I have YET to see any who is not a hypocrite!"

You use the same logic as they do.

"They create lies in the name of religion and follow them and want you to follow them blindly and ohhhhh does it sound familiar; don’t let any one speak against their false beliefs, especially women!"

This what you say as well.

"Do you tell them what they are saying is religiously or even morally or even logically wrong when you know it?"

I say, just as the knowledgeable scholars of old say, which is that I disagree with their opinion, however I hold the possibility that it is correct while I am incorrect, OR that we are possibly both correct. Allah knows the truth of the matter and he guides and judges everyone according to their intentions and understanding. If a person has a ruling that is based off of culture and pride, which is often to reinforce patriarchal tendencies and norms, it is blameworthy as the intentions are not pure (such as genital mutilation). If a person follows an opinion which they truly believe is the correct opinion, then it is for Allah to judge. To say something IS halal/haram can be an act of kufr if one is incorrect unless it is an issue on which there is no difference of opinion, HOWEVER to say "I believe that such and such is correct or incorrect" is acceptable because instead of stating an absolute fact, which is known only to Allah, you are stating what you believe. The community has to learn to accept differences of opinion and let people practice according to their understandings. People will always have different understandings because peoples intellects and ways of understanding and viewing the world are different, this is a reality. To advocate for one view only is ignorance and cause division.

"If yes, then you’re the same.
If no. even then you’re no better.
Conservative OR progressive??"

You are dividing the world into black and white; only extremists deal in absolutes. One is an extremist not because of what values they hold (niqab or no niqab) but rather how they treat others. If you try to impose your view on other people you are an extremist.


Messages In This Thread

Please Help! Please Help! Please Help!
Sister Hazar -- Friday, 7 May 2010, 4:19 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Behroz Batliwalla -- Friday, 7 May 2010, 4:23 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Salman Farrukh -- Friday, 7 May 2010, 5:42 pm
Niqab Must Be Banned
Behroz Batliwalla -- Friday, 7 May 2010, 8:17 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Mubashir -- Sunday, 9 May 2010, 12:24 am
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
UmeAimon -- Friday, 7 May 2010, 7:31 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Khadija Husain -- Saturday, 8 May 2010, 11:10 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
musa -- Sunday, 9 May 2010, 7:24 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Dr Shabbir -- Sunday, 9 May 2010, 10:25 pm
UmeAimon -- Monday, 10 May 2010, 5:44 am
Mubashir -- Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 1:32 am
musa -- Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 2:35 am
UmeAimon -- Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 3:54 pm
Request to Sister UmeAimon!
Dr Shabbir -- Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 4:27 pm
Re: Request to Sister UmeAimon!
UmeAimon -- Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 5:09 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 10 May 2010, 8:01 am
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Mubashir -- Tuesday, 11 May 2010, 1:34 am
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Musa -- Wednesday, 12 May 2010, 2:46 pm
Re: Please Help! Please! - Niqab Must Be Banned
Musa -- Thursday, 13 May 2010, 6:54 pm