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Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
By:Nawab Ahmad
Date: Sunday, 2 May 2010, 10:43 am

Respected Br Dr Shabbir Ahmad, AA!

As per my telephonic conversation with you, because of your ongoing engagement with your guests at home, you are going to talk with me more, after a couple of days. So I postponed any discussion till that time.

Now that Br Salman Farrukh has put a lot on Angels and has started on Jinns, I decided to join the discussion in the forum. I would still give Br Salman Farrukh the lead position and would join him only where I would need to attain more clarity, or clarity on the things which he would not address.

Now please allow me to proceed.

QUOTE:
Verse 21:37 states Khuliqal Al-insanu min ‘ajal. ..... Such is the case with “Khalaq Al-jaanna min marijin min naar”.

UNQUOTE:
A) The Aayat 21/37 says : Khuliqal Al-insanu min ‘ajal,
while 55/15 does not say: Khalaqal Al-insana min Naar.

According to the rules of Logic, the quoted argument then becomes invalid. To validate the argument, one needs to bring in a third Quranic statement that enunciates that Aljaan are a group of humans. Anyone's subjective understanding, that Aljaan are uncivilized humans (nomads), bears no standing in Logic.

Br Dr Shabbir, please let me know what wrong I am doing in applying the rules of Logic here.

B) According to the form of the CONNECTED statement on insan and jinn -- I made insan from soil, and jinn from fire (55:14,15) -- it would be very strange linguistically to take 'soil' as the structural material while 'fire' as the metaphor. I find no example of such language in the Quran. So Tasreef, with regard to this kind of language structure, is also not there.

C) Regarding Naar and 'əjal, let me put a common analogy. Your wife says, "This food I have made out of fruits." And during the conversation, she also says, "This food I have made out of love." Since "fruit" is a concrete object and "love" is an abstract one -- her first assertion would mean "she has made the food out of FRUIT MATTER as its composition" while her second assertion would mean "she has made the food out of 'LOVE' as her [special] attitude toward preparing it." Isn't this right, Sir?

In the same manner, as I understand: since "Naar" is a concrete object, the sentence means "Aljaan have been made with NAAR as their structural substance." And since 'əjəl is an abstract noun, the sentence means "Al-insan have been made with HASTE as their [usual] attitude of acting."

Please also note here, Sir, the two sentences have not been stated altogether in the Quran but separately.

I would be obliged if you pinpoint where I am going wrong in making out the meaning. Please!

D) If the way of communicating sense in "Khuliqal Al-insanu Min ‘Ajal" is same as the way of communicating sense in "Khalaq Al-jaanna Min Naar", --- why can't the former be equated with the sense-communication in “Khələq əl-insana min Teen”? Please give your input, my brother, here also.

In the latter case, it would mean that Man has not been made out of soil but simply has been given an earthly, a soil-ly, or a dirtly disposion. Do you think this is right anyway, Sir?

Similarly, “Khələq Al-insana min 'ələqəh or mudhgətəh etc” would mean that humans are not raised from 'ələqəh or mudhgətəh (in mother's belly) but given the characteristics of soft tissues. Do you think this is the right way of interpreting the Quranic wording?

QUOTE: [from QXP: 55/33,34] يا معشر الجن والانس ... فباي الاء ربكما تكذبان

UNQUOTE:
A) Above كما is Pronoun and its Nouns are clearly al-jin and al-ins in the quoted [abbreviated] 'unit of speech'. So, putting the Nouns in the place of the Pronoun, the translation of the second piece becomes: "O al-jin and al-ins ...", not "O men and women ...".

B) Also, I find no explicit texts, in this Surah, that mentions 'men' and 'women'. So, I fail to understand from which grammatical principle, كما can be considered as the Pronoun for Men and Women.

While Pronouon كما for Jinn and Ins, is all apparent from the texts of Ayaat 14 to 16 and Ayaat 33 to 34. I have already quoted the Ayaat 33,34 above. So now I am going to quote Ayaat 14 to 16 by suppressing the unrequired portions as under:

خلق الانسان ... وخلق الجان ... ربكما تكذبان

SUMMARY:
Respected Br Dr Shabbir, hope you will help me resolve my confusions by spotlighting the relevant rules of Grammar, Linguistics and Logic. I understand, man is error. So, I would have no problem in giving second thoughts at your illuminations.

I learn as I go, Sir.
Nawab Ahmad

Messages In This Thread

Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil eye
Bob Burnett -- Friday, 30 April 2010, 10:35 pm
Dalai Lama Quotes
Bhikshu Ten Sen -- Friday, 30 April 2010, 11:05 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
Salman Farrukh -- Saturday, 1 May 2010, 2:39 am
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
Dr Shabbir -- Saturday, 1 May 2010, 12:14 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
Salman Farrukh -- Saturday, 1 May 2010, 4:57 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
UmeAimon -- Sunday, 2 May 2010, 5:22 am
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
Nawab Ahmad -- Sunday, 2 May 2010, 10:43 am
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
UmeAimon -- Sunday, 2 May 2010, 6:53 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
Salman Farrukh -- Sunday, 2 May 2010, 9:36 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts, evil e
UmeAimon -- Tuesday, 4 May 2010, 5:12 pm
Monsters, demons, Jinns - Dr. Shabbir on vacation
*Arif Shamim, CEO Ourbeacon -- Tuesday, 4 May 2010, 11:19 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts - 2
Nawab Ahmad -- Tuesday, 4 May 2010, 3:38 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts - 2
Salman Farrukh -- Wednesday, 5 May 2010, 1:27 pm
Re: Monsters, demons, Jinns, magic, ghosts - 2
Mohammad Rafiq -- Thursday, 6 May 2010, 4:18 am
If You Do Not Like Ourbeacon Policy --
*Arif Shamim, CEO Ourbeacon -- Thursday, 6 May 2010, 3:07 pm