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Re: The return of Bob
By:Jawaid Ahmed
Date: Monday, 19 April 2010, 8:29 am
In Response To: Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to? (bob)

AA Bob,
[And what are you going to call me next time,perverty,oh sorry,i mean parvezi,,?]

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, BOB; I WILL CALL YOU BROTHER.

I responded to your post about Petra, the Kaabah and Mecca because it was something I had read about from the Freeminds website; it is their ideology, along with no responsibility before the age of 40, Jinn’s are Neanderthals, Rashad Khalifa was a Prophet, and the nonsense 19! Their theory on Petra was presented by yourself so that was why I associated you with this group. I rejected all their ideas years ago and very rarely visit their website as they have deviated from what I perceive as the truth, in the same way the N2I have done with their love of hadith.

I have known about Parwez Saab for 40 years, first through my Father then my own study and I have not come across anyone who can match his understanding of the Quran. His writings are logical, intellectually stimulating and bring forth a purer, clearer Quran. I am a reader of Parwez, so call me a Perwezi, but also a Shabiri, and any other scholar who puts the Quran first; history and ancestors last or not at all!

Lot did not live in Mecca and we do not have to look at where Lot, the Messenger or anyone else resided, the important thing is to follow the Message, the Quran. The Kaabah is a brick structure and means nothing, it is not ‘holy’, it not ‘Islam’, it is only meant to stand as a symbol for humanity. Re-read Parwez Saabs dictionary entry on Qibla I posted above and you will see what I mean. Just because the Kaabah has been turned into a pagan temple once more, does not mean it does not have a function in the pure Islam we are trying to bring about. Destroy it a hundred times; it is the idea that is important, not the structure.

Allah never sanctioned Jerusalem as a centre for mankind, it was chosen by the Jews as their capital, but do we need a Central Authority? Yes. The UN shows how Islam should have progressed using Mecca as New York; we need a central body to keep the world on its ‘Islamic toes’. Generally, as individuals your Quranic quotes work at that level, but Islam is also for mankind, a New World Divine Order, so we need a setup that counters for individuals, then communities and then globally. Please read:-

Dr Shabir:-
22:26 Behold! We pointed the site of the Sacred House, Ka’bah, to Abraham, saying, “Associate none with Me, and keep My House clean of human dogmas for those whose Divine Ideology of Monotheism will revolve around this Center for all mankind. Train the visitors to stand up for Truth, and bow to and prostrate before Divine Commands.” [2:125, 2:197, 3:95-97, 22:28-29]
22:27 “And announce to mankind the duty of Pilgrimage. They will come to you on foot, and on every kind of fast mount, coming from every far-away point on earth.”

Parwez, Exposition of the Quran.
26. This center of Divine Order was founded by Abraham, so that obedience would remain for Allah alone. No one else should be ascribed a share in it.
We had told him that the center should be purged of all self-made concepts and beliefs and reserved for educating and disciplining people. The responsibilities of people so organised would be to supervise and keep vigil over the actions of other nations; establish an exemplary social and judicial system; and thereafter to completely submit to the Divine Order. (2:125; 2:197; 3:17; 3:95.)
27. (After this We told Abraham to) Proclaim to people that they should henceforth come to this place for the final decisions on their affairs. They should come from every part of the world, after travelling long distances on foot or on mounts which may become lean on account of fatigue from the journey.
28. They should come here so that they can witness with their own eyes the beneficial (and wonderful) work being done for them by this system.

This makes sense to me. It is not about rituals, meaningless words repeated like parrots and actions repeated like robots, it is about being righteous in doing the right things.

2:177 (One consequence of this schism is their pre-occupation with rituals, with each sect leaving the Revelation aside and taking delight in its own set of dogmas they call religion. 30:320.)
Righteousness and exponential development of the ‘self’ depends not on whether you turn your faces to East or West. But righteousness is that:
One has conviction in God, And the Last Day, And the Angels, And the Book,
And the prophets. And that he gives his cherished wealth to: Family and relatives, Orphans, Widows, Those left helpless in the society, And those whose hard-earned income fails to meet their basic needs, Those whose running businesses have stalled, The ones who have lost their jobs, Whose life has stalled for any reason, The disabled, The needy wayfarer, son of the street, the homeless, the one who travels to you for assistance,
Those who ask for help, and Those whose necks are burdened with any kind of bondage, oppression, crushing debts and extreme hardship of labor. (And righteous are) those who strive to establish the institution of Salaat, (2:3. 2:53) And help set up the Economic System of Zakaat. They are true to their pledge whenever they make one. And they remain steadfast in physical or emotional distress and in times of peril. It is they who have proven themselves to be true, and it is they who are living upright.

Doing the right things does not need Mecca, Kaabah, Rome, Jerusalem, the Ganges etc, we have the Quran to tell us, but we do need authority; we cannot let individuals make up their own beliefs and practices whenever and wherever they are. We need this Central Authority to regulate mankind’s affairs.

Qibla is the Quranic ideology we should be following, not a compass point.

The Black Stone
The veneration of stones was common to the people of Palestine in the patriarchal period which was taken up by the Arabs when they migrated there during antiquity. The use of seven stones for solemnising oaths became a practice of the Arabs and this “honour” attributed to stones has been re-established sometime in Muslim history with the “Hajarul Aswad”, or black stone, built into the Kaabah. Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs were nature worshippers. They placed great religious significance on watering holes, mountains and in particular associated unusual stones as magical. This black stone was said to be a meteorite from heaven that was at one time white, or pink, but has become black due to the sins of those kissing it! Nauzabillah! Circumambulation of the Kaabah seven times was done in the days of ignorance, possibly based on this oath business and definitely nothing to do with Allah.

Where in the Quran is there any mention of the black stone and the ritual performed by Muslims of kissing it when concluding their circumambulation? The act is only found in a hadith attributed to Omar who said he saw the Prophet kissing it. Why would our beloved Prophet kiss, in an act of adoration or a form of idol worship, a stone when he was filled with divinely inspired knowledge and knew truth from falsehood? The kissing is a pagan act and has no place in Islam as we submit to Allah so the Prophet did not do such a thing. This is totally rejected by the Quran. I ask you a simple question, who wrote such a lie and what was his purpose? Interpolation into Islam is the answer!

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 667: Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia:
'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you."

Add all the other falsehoods, shaving the head, stoning three pillars, zam zam water, and we are agreement over everything wrong with modern Islam, but let us not muddy the waters with Petra!

Salam

Messages In This Thread

Please be brief.
Moderator -- Thursday, 15 April 2010, 6:05 pm
Where has Bob's posts gone to?
Jawaid Ahmed -- Friday, 16 April 2010, 8:19 am
Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to?
bob -- Sunday, 18 April 2010, 12:16 pm
Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to?
UmeAimon -- Sunday, 18 April 2010, 2:26 pm
Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to?
Dr Shabbir -- Sunday, 18 April 2010, 3:35 pm
Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to?
Aurangzaib -- Tuesday, 27 April 2010, 9:38 am
Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to?
Dr Shabbir -- Tuesday, 27 April 2010, 11:03 am
Re: Where has Bob's posts gone to?
Aurangzaib -- Wednesday, 28 April 2010, 4:26 am
Re: The return of Bob
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 19 April 2010, 8:29 am
bob is buzzy bee but still around ;)
bob -- Thursday, 22 April 2010, 1:43 pm