Our Beacon Forum

Re:virgin birth part 2
By:Jawaid Ahmed
Date: Monday, 1 March 2010, 2:51 pm
In Response To: Re: About MARY-peace be upon her?! (Dr Shabbir)

[This forum is infuriating, why say somethin with one word when I can do it with 10? 'The post is too big', not for me, I can post it in two parts!]

virguin birth , part 2
Mary is said by the Roman Catholic Christians to be the Mother of God. They say that the Almighty is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God but there are not three Gods but One God! This means that Jesus is God so who impregnated who in their “begotten” act? Since the Bible states that “the power of the Most High overshadowed her” and then she conceived, does this mean that God impregnated His own Mother? God impregnated Mary who bore God! I think I should stop there with this mystery, especially when we Muslims so evidently fail to understand the Trinity concept which is so clear to our Christian brethren! The whole idea of the trinity is an absurdity and trying to think about it leads to more problems than they are trying to solve by assigning divinity to Jesus. That is why the Quran says not to say trinity:-

Surah 4 verse 171
4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion. Say nothing about God except the Truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary was a Messenger of God, the fulfilment of His Word to Mary, created according to the Laws of Creation and given free will from the Divine Energy (like all human beings 15:29, 32:7-9, 38:72). Believe in God and His messengers, and say not: “Three". Cease! It is for your own good. God is but One God. Far removed it is from His Supreme Majesty that He should have a son. Everything in the Highs and everything in the Lows belongs to Him. He is the Self-Sufficient Sustainer of the Universe. [2:255]

I have found that the problem is mankind trying to understand Allah in human terms and that makes us interpret His message in human, paganised, tales instead of reality. Man from times immemorial has always turned the normal into the fantastic; just look at Hinduism with its thousands (millions?) of gods! Furthermore, if you look at the virgin birth story of Jesus in the Bible it can be seen to be based on a false prophecy in Mathew and it is appalling that Muslims are misunderstanding the Quran based on Christian lies. All of the prophecies mentioned in the gospels can be seen to be based on taking words and events out of context from the Old Testament and making them fit the story you want to propagate; Jesus had passed away (yes he died, see later details) and events, prophecies, tales etc were taken from the Old Testament and made in the Gospel accounts. The authors of the Gospels looked back into the Old Testament to “prophesise” (make up) the life and times of Jesus, what a brilliant idea!

No revelation from Allah is there in its original form except the Quran. All others have been re-written by the scribes and that was why the Quran was needed to confirm what was truthful from these past scriptures and what was to be rejected as interpolations. These scriptures went from being Divinely Inspired to man made stories with many fallacies. Thus, the lie in Matthew about the “prophecy” of the virgin conceiving from the Old Testament is totally unbelievable and nothing to do with a “virgin” at all. The prophecy can be seen to have been fulfilled at that time and is not a prophecy of a future event, hundreds of years ahead!

From the Bible, Mathew chapter 1:-
1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (note; Mary did not remain an apparent virgin after giving birth which is propagated by the Roman Catholics and they falsely state that she remains an eternal virgin, the “mother of god”!)

Now for the actual prophecy, read Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14;
7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (In the actual passage in Hebrew it is stated that a young woman, “almah”, will conceive and not a virgin, “bethultha”, but the Bible authors put this word virgin in to help propagate their lies)

But the prophesy was fulfilled in the following verse of Isaiah
8:2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.
8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.

The prophetess conceived in the same way as Mary, a person went in “unto” her, and this episode was not a prophecy for Jesus but was fulfilled at that time. This means Mathew was trying to deceive the gullible Christian sheep who are just as indoctrinated in falsehood as the Mullah inspired Muslims. Words and events taken out of context will always misguide the majority who fail to use their Allah given intellects to confirm the truth, confirmation of even the teachings of the Quranic verses is advocated by Allah in His Book.

As mentioned earlier, you may say that it states in the Quran that the birth of Jesus can be likened to the creation of Adam and this gives credibility to Jesus not having an earthly father, just like Adam. In the opinion of many learned scholars the creation of the person Adam in the Quran has again been misunderstood from the false teachings of the Bible. Genesis chapter 1 has Allah creating the animals, male and female and creating mankind (ahadam), male and female. But Chapter 2 has another “genesis” account where Allah “worries” that a man, Adam, is alone and so creates Eve, but He has already created human beings male and female so why the fanciful story of the rib etc? This is an interpolation on the word of Allah who is All-knowing, All-wise and does not create something which He later realises needs a female companion for friendship! Again, let the Gospel truth of the Bible speak:-

Genesis, Chapter 1
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Animals were created first, then man, male and female together. Now read the next chapter that turns everything on its head:-

2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

To add further fuel to your fires of Hell would you please explain to me why all the Arabic words are translated into English except a few like Adam or Jinn? If you have other sources for understanding the Quran then it is in your interest to translate it according to your whims rather than the true meaning of the Quran. The Bible has been believed as the truth when it clearly has man made interpolated ideas in it so we have to look at the Arabic dictionary and lexicon to find that Adam has the meaning “mankind” and should be understood as such when reading the Quran.

Surah 2 verses 30-39
2:30 (Now is related to you the creation of Adam or mankind, in allegorical terms; when God decided to create humans who would be given free will, and supremacy on earth.) Your Lord announced His Plan to the angels, “Indeed, I am about to place on earth a new creation that will have dominion over it.” They exclaimed, “Will you place on it such creation as will cause disorder therein and shed blood! - But we strive to manifest Your Glory (in the Universe)!” He answered, “Surely, I know what you do not know.”
[God had programmed the angels (God’s Forces in Nature) with specific tasks that express the Divine Will. He created humans through the process of evolution and granted them the ability to make free choices. They may choose to follow Divine Guidance or deviate from it (33:72). The "angels" were not even remotely aware of any will other than God’s. The Qur’an metaphorically portrays the immense responsibility given to humans in the story of Adam. Free will may be likened to the breathing into humans from the Divine Energy. The angels wondered if a clash of wills would not result in chaos and bloody disorder on earth, while the angelic role had always been that of striving to manifest the Impeccable Glory of their Lord and absolute submission to His Commands. (15:28-29, 16:49-50). Tasbeeh from Sabah = Swim with long strides = Strive hard = Apply oneself to a mission. Moses and Aaron did Tasbeeh - strove hard against Pharaoh 20:33. Human Evolution … 6:2, 7:189, 15:26-27, 22:5, 23:12-13, 25:54, 32:7-9, 35:11, 37:11, 71:17]
2:31 And God endowed humanity with the capacity to attain knowledge. Then He showed the angels certain things and said to them, “Tell me if you have the capacity of learning about these, if you are indeed truthful (and better qualified to have supremacy on the planet earth).” [‘Allam-al-Aadam-al-Asma = He endowed humankind with the capacity to attain knowledge]
2:32 They humbly said, “Glorified are You, High Above all! We only know what you have taught us (the tasks assigned to us). Most certainly, You, only You, are the Knower, the Wise.”
2:33 Then He said, “O Adam! Show them some of your capacity to attain knowledge.” And when Adam informed them of his ability to learn, He said to the angels, “Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the Highs and the Lows? And I know what is manifested by your efforts and the potentials that lie dormant within you.”
2:34 And when We said to the angels, “Humble yourselves and be subservient to Adam-mankind, they instantly complied humbling themselves except Iblees (Satan). He refused through self-glorification, and so became a rejecter of the Divine Command.
[Thus, God endowed mankind with the ability to harness the Forces in Nature through science. There is, however, an internal domain He has designed within humans, the Nafs or ‘Self’. Call it 'I', ‘Self’, ‘Ego’, ‘Personality’, ‘I-amness', ‘Me’. This has been placed for the humans to exercise free will and achieve personal growth or self-actualization. But this ‘self’ is vulnerable to the evil prompting of its own intrinsic selfish desire or that of extrinsic sources. In that situation the ‘self’ rebels against the higher controls of human judgment, and more importantly, against the Revealed Moral Values. This rebellious state of the ‘self’ has the ability to rationalize its desire and emotions through the intellect. And this rebellious state of the ‘Ego’ is Satan or Iblees. It was this Iblees that refused to humble itself to the higher human controls of judgment and Divine Commands. Incidentally, the Qur’an nowhere mentions a human ‘soul’, ‘spirit’ or 'spirituality'. Iblees = Deprivation = Hopelessness = Frustration = Desperation and regret = Rebellious state of the human ‘self’ that drifts away from the Divine Commands, but wishes to escape personal responsibility by blaming God for its own misdeeds. See 7:16. Sajdah = Prostration = Complete submission = Willful obedience = Utter humility = Adoration = Utmost commitment to Divine Cause = Humbling one's own self]
2:35 We told the early humans, Adam and his wife (men and women), “O Mankind! Reside in this land which is Paradise and partake the fruit thereof as you please. But do not go near this branching Tree (of Selfishness). Or, you will become of the wrongdoers.”
[If you branch off into casts, sects, and rivalry, you shall replace your Paradise with Hell. 2:213, 4:65 10:19, 20:117-118. Zulm = To displace something from its rightful place = Replace good with evil = Relegate the truth = Transgression = Oppression = Violation of human rights = Wrongdoing]
2:36 But Satan caused them both (men as well as women) to stumble therein and got them out of the happy state they were in. And so We said, “Degraded you have become with wedges of discord among yourselves! There shall be for you habitation and livelihood on earth for a while.”
[Their straying egos and selfish desires had clashed and led them into dividing among themselves for the pursuit of self-interest. Humanity fell from the height of felicity into contention and rivalry. The plentiful provision of the land that used to be open for all became a matter of private ownership and hoarding. They have since been living in a state of continuous toil, turmoil and strife]
2:37 (The solution to this catastrophe was beyond human redress.) Then Adam received Words of Guidance from his Lord and He accepted his repentance. Certainly, He is the Acceptor, the Most Merciful.
[Adam = Aadam = Man. His wife = Woman. Udma = Ability to live together as a community. Aadam from Udma thus, indicates humankind. The word “Eve” or Hawwa is not mentioned in the Qur’an. She is described with dignity as Mer’a-til-Aadam = Adam’s Zaujah = Wife, Consort, Mate of Adam = Mrs. Adam. The Qur’an adopts the beautiful method of either gently correcting or ignoring the errors in other Scriptures. It does not repeat the Biblical fallacy of ‘Eve’ having been created from Adam’s rib. She also repented and God treated both of them equally. 7:23-24. Again, Adam and his wife mean humankind, male and female. Taubah = Repentance = Returning to the Right Path = Realizing one's fault and taking corrective action. 4:17, 4:18, 5:39, 3:89, 6:54, 16:119, 24:5, 27:71]
2:38 We said, “For now, all of you are degraded to a lower level of existence, out of this state of felicity (Paradise). But, when guidance comes to you from Me, those who will follow My Guidance, on them shall be no fear from without, nor shall they have any grief from within.”
[Note here the multiple plural ‘all of you’ confirming that Adam and his wife are allegorical terms for the humankind. Incidentally, the word ‘Eve’ is nowhere mentioned in the Qur’an, once again Adam denoting humankind. Khauf = Fear from without. Huzn = Intrinsic depression or grief = Unhappiness = Regret]
2:39 But those who reject Our messages or deny them in practice, such will be the rightful companions of the Fire. They will abide therein.

The verses are interpreted in my “Adam” section but in a nutshell they are referring to the creation of mankind and not a man called Adam.

Returning to Jesus, he was born in the same way as all of mankind (ahadam), by normal conception, and this makes much more sense than understanding it to mean like the single person, Adam. Nowhere in the Quran does Allah say that Adam was the single first human being on this earth, neither does it say that “he” was a prophet when it lists a number of prophets and if he had been the first prophet then would this not have been mentioned at least once? My Evolution section also details mankind’s development

Further, modern Christians sometimes tell us that there has been uncontested belief in the virgin birth, resurrection and divinity of Jesus from the earliest times, but this is far from the truth. If you study early writings of the Christian era you will see that there was a great debate about Jesus, mainly between the Trinitarians and the Unitarians, those who turned Jesus into a god and those who followed the human messenger. The Ebonite’s, for example, knew that Jesus was a normal man, born naturally, with a mother and father, who attained greatness based on his deeds and not on any fantasies of birth and death. Unfortunately for mankind, the paganised Roman world changed to Christianity but adapted it to their way of thinking. However, we can still find the truth in the Bible, for example in the Book of Acts it states the following:-

Bible, Acts chapter 2 verse 22
2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

I know you can find other verses dealing with a “divine nature” of Jesus but when you consider the Old Testament use of these words and phrases they are far from conclusive evidence of divinity or the pre-existence of Jesus even from the Bible itself. The verse above, however, is conclusive for Jesus being a man, a Messenger of God, who worked “miracles” by God’s power through him and not by his own powers; therefore Jesus was not God, was not a person in a trinity and was not almighty. The early followers of Jesus would be horrified that later Christians would turn Jesus into a part of their God in the sinful trinity concept institutionalised as an article of faith by the Roman Catholics at the council of Nicaea in 324CE under the first Christian Roman ruler, Constantine. Paganised Rome recreated Christianity in its image (you should be institutionalised for believing in the majority of the false, ludicrous, obscene etc beliefs and practices of all religions). Those who objected to the deification of Jesus were eliminated, they were hunted down and murdered; their books were burnt and no one was allowed to discuss anything other than the new state policy of the divine Jesus on punishment of death. The Nag Hammadi scrolls were found in Egypt a number of years ago and they should have been destroyed centuries ago because they differed from the “Christianity” that the Catholics wanted to propagate. Jesus was a man, who married, who lived to an old age, etc. are all to be found in these scrolls and life is about doing good deeds and not about a blood sacrifice for sins.

This is even confirmed by the Bible we have today but words are passed over when you have pre-conceived beliefs blinding you. In the book of Acts Jesus is described as a man that will be born normally and not miraculously:-.

Bible, Book of Acts
2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

This Prophecy from the Bible is never brought up by our Christian brothers, I wonder why? The birth of Jesus was to be according to the flesh, from the loins of a man, shall I spell it out more graphically or have you got that mental picture in your minds? And do not be misled by what the followers of Paul, sorry of Jesus, have turned the meaning of Christ into (should we say Paulianity instead of Christianity since every belief of these people are based on this man who never even met Jesus!). Christ (Kristos) is the Greek word which in Hebrew is Messiah (Messih) which means “Anointed King” and not the only begotten son of god. It does not mean anything Divine but a man divinely ordained by God to rule on earth as a King and Priestly figure (the way of life ordained by God does not separate state and religion; they are one and the same). It is blasphemy of the highest order to say it means Jesus was god but Christians get around this by saying it’s a mystery only God understands so just believe; you poor simple Christian sheep.

The divination of Jesus came after all his followers (disciples/Sahaba) had died and innovation/interpolation into the Divine message of Jesus resulted. This innovation is borrowed from Egyptian, Greek, Persian and Roman mythology, for example the god Zeus impregnated an earthly female to create Hercules, the same sort of fairy tale as Jesus! These Greek gods also performed miracles, visited the underworld (just like Jesus was supposed to have died and come back) and so the fairy tales about Jesus are the means to make people at the time that the gospels were written more like their own false beliefs and so much more accessibly to them. They were written to convert the people and not to give historical accuracy. The Egyptian deity Osiris had a figurative death, burial for three days and then a resurrection, copied by the Alexandrian Christians for Jesus. The Egyptians also had the phoenix, a mythical animal that would die and be re-born again out of fire. They also had the shape of the cross in their religious iconography, adapted by the Christians after they had originally used the sign of a fish, for Jesus was a fisher of men. Coptic Christians still use the original Egyptian sign. The Persian Zoroastrian religion also has the legend of Mithra which predates Christianity by at least two thousand years. This has Mithra being born from a virgin on the 25th of December; considered as a lamb of god; atones for the sins of people by dying and finally, guess what? Yes, he was resurrected on the third day! Not only did the gospel authors take events out of the Old Testament they also copied pagan religious beliefs as well. To make this point complete I must tell you about the excuse that some Christians have about this copying; they state that because God had been writing in His Old Testament about the future events of sending His son, other religions copied these so it was the other way round than what I have stated. The fact that Mithra predates the Bible writings destroys this excuse so we know who is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

To add insult to injury we can look at Hinduism where it is also believed that God is able to take on human form. Hindus believe that God lives amongst us so that His laws can be seen to be just, since how can a God in heaven understand what is best for us mortals, He has to “walk the walk in order to talk the talk”, so to speak. Buddhists are also believers in their god coming to earth in human form (god incarnate) and they are known to have travelled extensively prior to the birth of Jesus. Christians believe that God “so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son” in order to live among us, to know what life is all about and then have a sacrificial death and resurrection. I am asking the question, if God did not know about what was best for us humans why did He reveal laws and regulations throughout history and what was He doing “walking” around on earth previously as well? Check these out:-

Genesis (“God” visiting Abraham and eating)
18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
18:3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
18:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

So we see that Judaism/Christianity has an apparent history of God appearing in a physical form and so to send His only son was unnecessary for God to understand us. According to my Jewish brothers and sisters (relatives of mine on account of our common ancestry from Abraham), when the Bible speaks of God walking amongst mankind this means in the sense of men adopting the practices that He has given us and not God physically strolling in the park. “Wrestling” with God can also be understood as trying to reconcile in our minds what God wants with us, thinking about and having doubts about it, before really believing with all our minds and hearts in His teachings.

To send His son as an offering for the original sins of Adam and Eve is preposterous. Genesis clearly states that they were both punished by God for their acts:-

3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The serpent’s punishment was to slither around the earth in exactly to the same way as he had already been doing! Women were to have pain in childbirth so this is a punishment from God, and man is to toil the earth. Are serpents now growing legs and walking around? Do Christian women who believe that Jesus is their god now have pain free childbirth? Do men not sweat while working? All these should have been eliminated if Jesus had died for our sins. This should have been the redemption of our sins since these were the punishments for Adam sinning given by God and not the complete forgiveness of every sin we do by just believing in the human sacrifice of Jesus (and no, this will not come to pass after the so-called second coming, you cannot pull that white rabbit out of the hat).

The Bible also has the ancestry of Jesus where Joseph is his father and not God!-

Matthew Chapter 1
1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
1:3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
1:4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
1:8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
1:9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
1:10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
1:11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

If you go through the Old testament, the Hebrew Scriptures, then the names mentioned above making up the 14 generations have been “amended “ to fit this statement. Names are missing! Either that or the scripture available to Matthew was different to the one we have today (more “inspired” absurdities in the Bible). I know it goes on to say that Mary was pregnant before she “knew” Joseph but why have a genealogy for Joseph if you claim Jesus was a son of God? There are other verses which state that Jesus was Josephs physical son and not God’s which refute the false beliefs of both the Christians and the so-called Muslims about Jesus.

The evil corruption of the scriptures is also evident from many Bible manuscripts that have been handed down to us. Also in the Gospel of Matthew we have the following:-

King James Bible, Matthew, chapter 1
1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Now when the followers of Christ/Paul, and not God, started to be influenced by pagan ideologies they corrupted the actual words of Matthew when they copied and translated the manuscripts (no two early Christian manuscripts are exactly the same, some have minor differences of no theological consequence whilst others are of major importance, e.g. the Gospel of Mark has three different endings!). The actual word that Matthew used at the start was “genesis” and this means “beginning” as used in the first chapter of the Bible:-

KJ Bible, Genesis Chapter 1
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The heaven and earth had not existed before God created them and this meaning is clear. As you can see from the King James Version of Matthew 1:18, the same word was translated as “birth” because the notion of Jesus being God or pre-existent was being propagated. If Jesus had a beginning (just created like the earth without a prior existence) when he was born then how could he be God, or a pre-existent being coming to earth in the form of a man, who was already there from time immemorial? The word birth was used to show that God came down in human form, was born, lived, died and then resurrected. In some manuscripts the lying hands of the scribes changed “genesis” to “gennesis” which only has the meaning of birth in Greek! One letter could change a meaning so what else could be changed by false interpolation of whole verses.

Messages In This Thread

About MARY-peace be upon her
Sr.Saad -- Sunday, 28 February 2010, 4:07 am
Re: About MARY-peace be upon her?!
Dr Shabbir -- Sunday, 28 February 2010, 12:53 pm
Re: About MARY-peace be upon her
Sr.Saad -- Sunday, 28 February 2010, 2:57 pm
Re: About MARY-peace be upon her?!
Dr Shabbir -- Sunday, 28 February 2010, 3:03 pm
Re: Virgin birth part 1
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 2:49 pm
Re: Virgin birth part 1
Dr Shabbir -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 3:04 pm
Re:virgin birth part 2
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 2:51 pm
Re:virgin birth part 2
Dr Shabbir -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 3:04 pm
Re:virgin birth part 2
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 3:07 pm
Re:virgin birth part 2
Dr Shabbir -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 4:03 pm
Re:virgin birth part 2
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 4:17 pm
Re:virgin birth part 2
Dr Shabbir -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 9:35 pm
Mother of God
Dr Shabbir -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 4:14 pm
Re: Mother of God
Jawaid Ahmed -- Monday, 1 March 2010, 4:22 pm
Re: peace be upon her?!
Dr Shabbir -- Sunday, 28 February 2010, 2:31 pm
Re: peace be upon her?!
Sr.Saad -- Sunday, 28 February 2010, 2:54 pm