Our Beacon Forum

Re: The first fish
By:Jawaid Ahmed
Date: Friday, 11 December 2009, 1:39 pm
In Response To: Re: The first fish (Arif Hakim)

[Being a humble student of the Qur'an I am aware of these eternal values.
Do not accuse viewers of not understanding you. Sir, they are not stupid and your statement sounds arrogant. If they cannot understand you, why don't you make yourself understandable IF YOU CAN? ]

Please read the responses to my “truth about swine” post and all were saying they will not eat pork. My post was not about eating pork but about taking clear verses of the Quran and allegorising them to absurdity; Read Akhtar Sherazis’ article on saum and you will see my point. The other brother has said my post was the most offensive on the forum, it was meant to be a pun, a parody, and not offensive, but most misunderstood this (the evidence is there to see).

[I think you do not understand yourself well nor the Book.
On the first note, you did not realize that it is you who have taken the bait and the fish is none else but your good-self.]

I have been visiting the likes of 19.org and other misreant Rashad Khalifa websites for 20 years now, all to no detrimental effect upon me, but on the contrary, I have been able to increase my faith because I have seen the nonsense that others believe in. It is testing yourself against falsehood that you are able to know whether your beliefs are strong and correct.

[Secondly, show me a verse in the Qur'an that tells us to make compromises with falsehood. The falsehood we are contending with is serious and grossly misleading.
You said, "Through my quiet diplomacy we may have a chance of showing the good brother where he is wrong, or where we are wrong."
"Where we are wrong" before a forger! What are you talking about Sir? ]

The issue was not about forgeries but about the letters at the head of the Surahs. Did Dr Shabir Saab fall for this man’s deception by posting an answer against him? I think not! I asked this man to produce more proof of his idea and if he does then he should be challenged on this. My rhetorical “or we may be corrected” are not the words of arrogance or false pride, but a humble realisation that we are not all perfect in what we do or practice. Ask Dr Saab how many have “walked the talk” when he asked for help; I answered his call before he gave it and you will not find me with the lost sheep of the house of Islam.

I understand myself very well, it is the others perception of me that is incorrect. As for the Quran, I bow to your superior knowledge.

[I do not have the courage or will to call a deliberate forger 'the good brother'. You and me are accountable before the Almighty Creator.]

The Quran calls Christians (amongst them “Trinitarians”) and Jews ( God knows what rubbish they have done and still do) as “people of the Book”, so why not call someone a “brother”? What do N2I Muslims call Dr Shabir? I doubt it is very complimentary, but we love this man. His QXP has been attacked as against “normal understanding”, is he then a forger?

[Please understand that diplomatic attitude in matters of Truth with capital T is extremely detrimental to the lost soul, to yourself and to the gullible viewers like the one who naively called you a g----.
10:15 When Our messages are conveyed to them in all clarity, those who do not expect that they are destined to meet with Us (want to strike a deal with the Messenger). They say, “Bring us a Qur’an other than this or make some changes in it.” Say (O Prophet), "I cannot possibly change it on my own. I only follow what is revealed to me. If I disobey my Lord, I fear the retribution of an awesome Day."]

Diplomatic treaties were made between the Mushriks of Mecca and the very Messenger of Allah, was he a gullible or a lost soul? Please understand that we must always engage with those who are not on the right path; we must keep to our principles and try to persuade others to do so without compromising the truth: THE MOUNTAIN MOVES TO MOHAMMAD.

If the Quran was so clear, why has the issue of Saum not been resolved up to QXPIV, where the good Dr Saab has said not eating and drinking is a part of saum, but now says it is not? The Dr Saab is far superior to me in Arabic and Quranic understanding, yet he can be corrected!

I was just reading Dr Shabir’s “Thus Speaks the Bible”, and on the front cover was a message from Malcolm X, junior. Malcolm X, senior, was a remarkable man who did a “second” conversion to orthodox Islam after visiting Mecca. He had previously been part of the Nation of Islam and rejected this “forged” sect, so why are we so hostile to engaging in an intellectual argument with another “forger”?

Truth does stand out from falsehood, but running away from an argument because you do not like someone is not the answer.

Messages In This Thread

What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
bkanwar2 -- Tuesday, 8 December 2009, 5:57 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Hicham -- Tuesday, 8 December 2009, 8:36 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Dr. Shabbir -- Tuesday, 8 December 2009, 8:45 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
bkanwar2 -- Tuesday, 8 December 2009, 9:13 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Dr. Shabbir -- Tuesday, 8 December 2009, 11:02 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Sidqi -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 1:07 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
bkanwar2 -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 2:13 am
Re: Confusion is your objective..
Sidqi -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 8:09 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Khadija Husain -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 6:43 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Jawaid Ahmed -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 8:44 am
Shabbir, only a lifelong student - edited
Dr. Shabbir -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 9:47 am
Re: Shabbir, only a lifelong student
Arif Shamim -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 7:21 pm
Arif Sir, you are a genius!
Shehnila -- Saturday, 12 December 2009, 8:12 am
What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Behroz Batliwalla -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 6:30 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Khadija Husain -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 6:51 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Noman Waseem -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 10:00 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Mehnaz -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 4:19 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Noman Waseem -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 8:01 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Mehnaz -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 10:27 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Noman Waseem -- Thursday, 10 December 2009, 2:10 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Mehnaz Karim -- Monday, 14 December 2009, 6:27 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim / Request
Mehnaz -- Monday, 14 December 2009, 8:36 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Arif Shamim -- Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 7:37 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Jawaid Ahmed -- Thursday, 10 December 2009, 8:58 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Arif Shamim -- Thursday, 10 December 2009, 5:28 pm
Kitab Mobeen (A clear discourse)??
Mubashir -- Saturday, 12 December 2009, 4:44 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
bkanwar2 -- Thursday, 10 December 2009, 8:23 pm
The first fish
Arif Hakim -- Thursday, 10 December 2009, 9:43 pm
Re: The first fish
Jawaid Ahmed -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 8:55 am
Re: The first fish
Arif Hakim -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 10:04 am
Re: The first fish
Jawaid Ahmed -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 1:39 pm
Re: The first fish
Saadia Khan, Manager QXP Project -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 3:23 pm
Re: The first fish
Arif Shamim, Director Administration, QXP Mission -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 5:00 pm
Re: The first fish
Jawaid Ahmed -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 4:32 pm
Re: The first fish
Saadia Khan, -- Monday, 14 December 2009, 6:32 pm
Re: The first fish
Jawaid Ahmed -- Tuesday, 15 December 2009, 2:38 pm
Re: The Website & Forum
Saadia Khan -- Tuesday, 15 December 2009, 8:58 pm
Re: QXP feels like ours
Behroz Batliwalla -- Tuesday, 15 December 2009, 9:58 pm
Re: The first fish
Mehnaz -- Wednesday, 16 December 2009, 12:30 am
Ma-Sha-Allah, Br Jawaid!
Dr Shabbir -- Wednesday, 16 December 2009, 12:46 am
Praying for doctor's health
Mehnaz -- Wednesday, 16 December 2009, 1:06 am
Re: Praying for doctor's health
Afsara Sheikh -- Wednesday, 16 December 2009, 1:38 am
Re: The first fish
shahalam -- Wednesday, 16 December 2009, 6:46 am
Re: The first fish
Jawaid Ahmed -- Thursday, 17 December 2009, 8:29 am
A brilliant mind!
Naushad P. -- Wednesday, 16 December 2009, 10:54 am
Re: The first fish
Behroz Batliwalla -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 10:50 am
“Rules” Section of the Our Beacon Policy, 2005
Umar -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 4:01 pm
Re: “Rules” Section of the Our Beacon Policy,
Khadija Husain, Asst Director QXP Project -- Friday, 11 December 2009, 5:03 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Mehnaz -- Thursday, 10 December 2009, 10:19 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Ahmed Farooqi -- Friday, 24 June 2011, 10:53 am
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
Abdul Haq, Pakistan -- Friday, 24 June 2011, 1:04 pm
Re: What does Alif-Lam-Miim/ آلم means?
jawaid ahmed, uk -- Friday, 24 June 2011, 1:13 pm