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Re: Virgin Certificates
By:Dr. Shabbir
Date: Tuesday, 24 November 2009, 8:11 am
In Response To: Re: Virgin Certificates (SF)

Respected SF,

Your post is very much appreciated. Please consider this your site.

Your thoughts tell me that your presence could be a great asset to this site/forum. Will you please oblige?

What an interesting subject you are dealing with in Philosophy! I love the subject.

I will keep looking for any questions or further comments from you, respected Sister!

Gender related double standards in the so-called Muslim countries have almost become a norm. Of course, the phenomenon is hypocritical and strongly discriminatory. If a girl even unjustly gets slandered for being unchaste, she loses respect in the family and community and her chances of getting honorably married suffer a huge blow. Physically deflowered equates morally dishonored. The psychological trauma of defamation carries much more significance than the minimal, usually unnoticeable, anatomical 'damage' in those societies, even among non-Muslims. So, like FGM, it is a cultural anomaly.

We know that quite a few young girls lose their hymens during innocent sport activities. What was the poor child's fault?

"Purity": You and your husband did something exceedingly remarkable and praiseworthy living in the west. We as a couple did in Pakistan, but it is a social norm there for dating being considered a big moral vice. Then there is curtailing of the free mixing of the sexes in isolation.

Why does the Quran forbid sexual intimacy outside of wedlock? The answer is another one word masterpiece, ITHM = A violation that drags down individual human potential by taking away human sensitivity = It also means indecency that hurts the 'person within'. ITHM = A violation that makes people callous, drags down human potential by irresponsible parenthood, disease contagion, creating wedge between people. It causes alienation and animosities in the society. The loss of the child's birth right to know his/her lineage is not an insignificant effect. ITHM also means a families breaker and a societal drag.

Interestingly, ITHM (Arabic) is Vit B1 deficiency in the camel. The affected animal, despite looking healthy, has great difficulty in sitting up from a recumbent position and standing on his feet from a sitting posture. ITHM = "I can't do it" = "beri bri".

B1 deficiency used to be common among the 16-19th century sailors who ate much polished rice for months without B1 replacement. Once ashore, almost all of them were uttering, "beri beri" (I can't do it.)

Note: Please know that honor killing of women by their own families is less common than it is suggested by the media. Honor killing of a man by his own family is almost unknown. However, the barbaric custom of revenge by the opposite party in both sexes is a lot more common crime.

Dear SF,

Modesty and chastity are indeed moral values to be highly cherished although they have been floundered in almost all communities, less so among the Muslims for the religious and social reasons.

The Quran addresses men before women on the issue of chastity and there are no double standards in the Book.

24:30 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and guard their modesty. This helps them grow in character. Surely, God is Aware of what they do.

24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and guard their modesty. ...O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Turn all of you together to God so that you may be successful (in establishing a benevolent society).

9:71 Believing men and believing women are colleagues of one another. They enjoin virtue and forbid vice. Together, they help establish the Divinely System of Life, and set up the Economic Order of Zakaat. This is how they obey God and His Messenger. These are the ones on whom God showers His grace of success. Certainly, God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

[The believing men and women do not deliver empty lectures. They enjoin virtue and forbid vice by personal example, knowing that the Qur’an is the Eternal Criterion of right and wrong. 2:185. ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’, ‘Right’ and ‘Wrong’ are not vague entities. The Qur’an clearly defines them in 2:177 and many other verses. In short, good is all that helps people and evil is all that hurts them]

While taking a short trip to religion, let us look at the Old Testament.


If a bride has no blood on the bed-sheet:

22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,

22:14 ----, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:

22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: [What shall become of the innocent damsels without hymen?]

22:17 [The damsel's father says] And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. [Is that decent behavior?]

22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, ----: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. [The poor damsel has no redress for such grievous slander]

22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: ---- put evil away from among you.

Respected SF,

Please continue to enlighten your own forum. I am moving this interesting thread on top for further comments by our respected viewers. I hope I haven't wandered too far from the subject.

To stay clear of N2I and sectarianism, I would call the True Quranic Islam as Al-Islam or simply Islam.

With best regards,


A lifelong student

Messages In This Thread

Virgin Certificates
Hicham -- Tuesday, 29 September 2009, 5:59 pm
Re: Virgin Certificates
Dr. Shabbir -- Tuesday, 29 September 2009, 11:49 pm
Urdu is dying
Javed Zaheer -- Wednesday, 30 September 2009, 12:02 am
Re: Virgin Certificates
Jawaid Ahmed -- Wednesday, 30 September 2009, 7:50 am
Re: Virgin Certificates
Mehnaz -- Wednesday, 30 September 2009, 3:22 pm
Re: Virgin Certificates
SF -- Tuesday, 24 November 2009, 6:40 am
Re: Virgin Certificates
Dr. Shabbir -- Tuesday, 24 November 2009, 8:11 am
Re: Virgin Certificates
Jawaid Ahmed -- Tuesday, 24 November 2009, 9:18 am