Our Beacon Forum

ISLAM: WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW - 11
By:Dr. Shabbir
Date: Thursday, 2 July 2009, 4:12 pm

REBUTTAL - 11
May 1st, 2008 by Dr. Shabbir
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
Mr. Robert Spencer: This is the basis, the foundation of the Qur’anic doctrine of Naskh which is abrogation. And it is the idea that when there are verses that are contradictory, or appear to be contradictory in the Qur’an, the one that is revealed later chronologically, is better as Allah has promised and cancels the earlier one.
Answer: Even the staunchest critics of the Qur’an have failed to find a valid, sustainable contradiction in the Qur’an, although a single successful effort of this kind would have been sufficient to refute the entire Book!
4:82 Will they not then, try to understand this Qur’an? If it were from other than God they would have found in it much contradiction and inconsistencies.
Please let me know, Sir, a single contradiction or apparent inconsistency you have noticed.
Mr. Walid Shoebat, Former Member, PLO Fatah Brigade: Now, the violence started. Now you have to weigh between peaceful verses and non peaceful verses. So, the edict was that these were made null and void.
Answer: Please show me one ‘non peaceful’ verse in the whole Qur’an. Your favorite ‘verse of the sword’ has been already answered, hopefully, to your satisfaction.
Mr. Serge Trifkovic: It is indeed a very curious concept for a non Muslim to accept the notion that God may change his mind about a topic and may issue one injunction in
AD 614
[2:256 & 9:5 Video Images]
2:256 There is no compulsion (i.e. coercion) in religion.
and then a very different one in AD 627.
9:5 Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them … But if they repent and accept Islam leave their way free.
But this is indeed what has happened in Islam.
Mr. Robert Spencer: It is very important to understand that the Qur’an is not arranged chronologically. It is arranged on, simply on the basis of the longest chapter to the shortest.
Mr. Serge Trifkovic: And so you will find in the book itself some of these more tolerant verses at a later point in the book than the very intolerant ones advocating violence and subjugation of infidels. But that doesn’t mean they came into being later on. Quite the contrary, if there is ever a contradiction between two injunctions the ones that came later on in Madinah are the ones that retain their validity. And the early ones from Mecca have been abrogated.
Answer: Dear Sir, this one is supposed by “scholars” to be a Madani Surah.
3:20 If they argue with you (O Messenger), tell them, “I have submitted to God; I and those who follow me.” Say to the People of the Scripture, and to those who have no Scripture, “Would you submit (to God)?” If they submit, then they have been guided but if they turn away, then your duty is only to convey the message. God is Seer of His servants.
Mr. Walid Shoebat: The peaceful verses became Mansookha, means “made null and void” with verses like verses of the sword.
Mr. Robert Spencer: Traditional Islamic theology has it that the 9th chapter of the Qur’an, Surah 9, is the last revealed in the career of the Prophet, and it is the only one that doesn’t begin with “Bismillahirrahmanirraheem”, In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Some have said that’s because there is no compassion or mercy in this particular chapter. And that it is the Qur’an’s last word on jihad and in particular on how Muslims should behave toward unbelievers. In it is the celebrated verse of the sword.
Answer: Dear Sirs, we have already dealt with the questions on abrogation, chronology and the so-called verse of the sword.
By the way, respected Mr. Trifkovic’s favorite, ‘tolerant’ no compulsion clause is found in the beginning of the Book, the second Surah out of 114.
The ninth Surah could never be the last one revealed since 5:3 makes it all too clear to prove itself as the last verse conveyed to mankind.
5:3 This Day, I have perfected your Religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and chosen for you AI-Islam (Submission to Divine commands that ensures universal peace) as the System of Life.
Does this leave any doubt, Sir?
Now “Bismillahirrahmanirraheem” before Surah 9. The simple reason: Surah 9 is essentially the continuation of Surah 8. It has been divided into two sections for our ease.
You said: “… there is no compassion or mercy in this particular chapter…”
Well, God being Merciful is mentioned seven times in Surah 9, Oft Forgiving five times, Compassionate twice, and Oft Relenting once, a total of 15 times.
See just one example of the matchless compassion in this Surah.
9:6 (O Messenger) if anyone of the idolaters seeks your protection or a safe passage, grant him protection from the State. Convey to him the Word of God, and then escort him to where he feels safe and secure. This kindness on your part is mandatory because they are people who do not know (and have not yet seen the beauty of the Divine System).
Your understanding of the so-called “verse of the sword” is NULLIFIED right here in 9:6.
Mr. Walid Shoebat: What does the verse of the sword say? Very clear!
When the forbidden months are over, kill the People of the Book wherever you find them. Lay siege for them, lay wait for them, lay ambush for them, kill them wherever you find them.
In fact, I converted to Christianity. Muhammad clearly stated that in the ends of days there will be many who defect from the faith. Kill them when you see them, wherever you find them. So this is the question that the West needs to understand. What part of “kill” don’t they understand?
Answer: By verse of the sword, you mean 9:5 as in Rebuttal 10. You said, “…kill the People of the Book …”
Sir, it appears to be an oversight - There is no mention of the People of the Book in 9:5.
Here is the correct rendition. (Kindly do not disregard the context and read all the verses from 9:1 to 9:10 as we have seen in the previous post.)
9:4 Except those idolaters with whom you have a treaty and they have not subsequently failed you, nor have they helped others against you. You shall fulfill your treaty with them until their term. God loves those who are mindful of His laws. [9:1:10]
9:5 When the four Sacred Months are over and if the idolaters are still aggressing, (neither becoming law-abiding citizens of the State, nor emigrating), subdue them whichever tribe they may belong to, take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them ambush. But if they repent from aggression, and help in the consolidation of the Divine System and in setting up the Economic Order of Zakaat, then leave their way free. Surely, God is Forgiving Merciful (so shall you be).
9:9 They trade away God’s revelations for petty gains and hinder people from His path. Their deeds spread inequity and confusion in the society. [This trade, frequently mentioned in the Qur’an, indicates: Fulfilling selfish desires for instant gains at the cost of disregarding Permanent Moral Values]
You said: “Muhammad clearly stated that in the ends of days there will be many who defect from the faith. Kill them when you see them, wherever you find them.”
There is no such narrative in the entire Hadith Corpus. On the contrary, there is a Hadith that people will embrace Islam in large numbers during the later times. If you really converted from Islam to Christianity, you don’t need more sympathy, Sir!
Sir George Bernard Shaw - The Genuine Islam, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936:
If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam.
…. I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity.
…. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.