...and the point of this forum is.... those were and are never muslims nor was/is this ever Islam. It's about time all the people start saying out that loud! The people who call themselves so called imams and scholars and leaders need to be challenged openly for their crime of making the versions of Islam that leave a muslim as nothing but a pathetic dupe! How long are we going to wait? Time is running short and the only hope I see now is to get rid of all these world financials and religious karta dhartas/heads and all their collaborators somehow who are destroying this world...for the sake of humanity not just for so called muslims!